St. Anger Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 The 3 previous posts take care of that comment for me, so I'll just leave it at that. Forcing people to do one or the other is not the intent at all. I agree completely... I enjoy painting and gaming... both are hobbies for me, which I enjoy and are great stress relievers! Not everyone will do both nor do they have time to do both... While I like painting and strive towards having my various armies painted, I too have become overcome by everyday life events. I will continue to paint with the eventual goal of getting everything painted, a goal that I know will never get reached... For some gamers, having the time or inclination to paint is not part of their gaming hobby. Excluding them has no positive outcome... I think the best path is to reward those who can showcase their painted armies in a tournament, but definately not to mandate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkdymnd Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Agreed, it's a hobby for some and for others it's just a game. Organized play can be catered to both groups, with an emphasis on the former pretty easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoM Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 I will continue to paint with the eventual goal of getting everything painted, a goal that I know will never get reached... Not if you keep playing swarms, at least. Why not move on to finishing Ramos next. You know he's got spiders for days and days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberhick Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 If your self admittedly not as good as those around you in these area's then why should the system be formed to help you compete? Couple of points about this. 1. Why is the system designed to help the gamers compete? If the average gamer shouldn't have anything to help them in their enjoyment why is the system designed to help the non painter compete for? Why do they need the special treatment? 2. The average gamer is what keeps a company in business. The talented painter or gamer are outliers of the community. It is not something most people think about. Yes the average dude still wants to win a game, thinking or saying otherwise.... I think I would be a good case of not caring all that much about it, but I still would like to win. Having a painting standard helps everyone 'into' Wyrd. The superb painter still has to play the game The superb tactician still has to paint The average joe still needs to do both It is an equal footing for everyone involved. No special treatment for anyone. Yes I play with unpainted miniatures, heck I have even played a game where most of my 'models' were soda cans and beer caps. I have used anything at hand to represent models on the table. I have no problems with unpainted models at a pick up game. But why can't a tournament be something a little more special? Like I said couple times now, I am under no delusions that the local shop's tournament would have a painting standard, but isn't going to Gencon or other 'big event' something special? You all may not like my excuses comment, but whatever way you want to look at it, they are excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 There's a ton of people frantically trying to achieve that for this coming Gencon. Many are the people opposed to your plea - still trying to get fully painted. Yep, I actually just started working on my Death Marshal crew today. Hoping to have it ready for Gencon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 I am going to refrain from making any comments here at this time. Except these two. This has always been a heated debate for various games and the like. If anything it should be up to whomever the tournament organizer is to decide on wether or not the armies have to be fully painted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Yep, I actually just started working on my Death Marshal crew today. Hoping to have it ready for Gencon. I'm working on 3 crews! Damnit... Stupid work getting iin the way of painting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Anger Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Not if you keep playing swarms, at least. Why not move on to finishing Ramos next. You know he's got spiders for days and days. AoM, Ramos and the Spider Swarm are near the top of the list after I complete the Tater Tot Swarm!!! Joss is already done and the Steamborg Executioner is almost complete, as well. Damnit... Stupid work getting iin the way of painting. W S, I agree totally!!! I may have to take a mental health day just to get some quality painting time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Interesting discussion (and remarkably civil - kudos to everyone!). I'm more of a gamer than a painter but I do like the painting aspect as well. It's just that I need deadlines to really get something done and getting my force painted because there is a tourney coming is as powerful an incentive as a painting competition deadline. I would never win a painting comp, but I do win tourneys. I also hold tournaments. We would like to be able to impose an obligation to having a painted force, but unfortunately I don't organize tournaments for big games like 40k or WM or such, but rather Confrontation 3rd and Hell Dorado and well, beggars can't be choosers. We would lack players if we imposed painting. Instead we have imposed undercoating, which already makes the minis look much better than metal (especially white undercoat). And even then, we never turn anyone away - especially new players. Now, small local tourneys aside, a big tournament is like a carnival and I think that it should embrace all the sides of the hobby. I don't think that it is crazy to necessitate painted forces in the way that BugKing(?) said earlier of undercoat and two colour polka dots being enough for the three colours. I mean, you can paint a big force in a matter of minutes by first spraying them fully with gray and then, from a bit farther away, with white. This gives a good basis for painting, as well. Then just paint their eyes red or something and you have a nice force of ghosts that look really quite nice on the gaming table. And you can paint them better at your leisure if that is your style or leave them be - as you like. So yeah, I kinda agree with the OP that painting a crew of 5-15 models shouldn't be an insurmountable task. Still, that said, I would love a way to make this a carrot instead of a stick situation and I fully realize "the opposition's" view point as well. Giving a painting prize is of course all well and dandy, but while I'm an OK painter (after 17 years of practice) I'm not that good. I would never win a best painted prize in a tournament. So that carrot doesn't work all that well. Our local big tournaments have experimented with differing ways of doling out points for painting and my personal favourite is a clearly tiered system where you get, say, one point if your bases are done, three points if you have a fully painted force and three points on top of that if you have shaded and highlighted your force. The quality of the painting/shading/highlighting/basing isn't an issue. If you've done it, you get the points. I forgot whether I had more stuff to say, but I think I've said kinda plenty already. Thank you for the interesting and civilized discussion of the topic, everyone. Been a pleasure reading all of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLemondropDan Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I have the perfect answer! Don't require armies to be painted, but hand out some minor prize to folks that do have their armies painted for tournaments. I'm thinking of a small weapons sprue or a card w/ nice art or a variant figure or something. Keep 'em changing up and interesting, and obviously only for the big tournaments held by Wyrd. Maybe even have a slightly better prize for "best army" or something, too. I'm not sure about the cost-effectiveness of this idea, but it is a nice "carrot" option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechaace Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I've got to admit when I first saw this thread I thought oh no, it's one of those again, as I think I've seen it on just about every forum. I must admit though it's been a lot better conducted than those other ones, which generally degenerate into a big argument. In this like the others I have to disagree with the original poster, in that I think making painting a requirement would be a horribly bad thing. I am in the majority a gamer, and what little time with my figs I get I like to spend gaming with them. However I do see the fairness in giving something for painting, as if you've spent all that time doing it then you should be rewarded. As people have said either make it something like a separate painting competition, or get extra points towards the tournament victory for having a painted army, even give out extra prizes for it if you choose. Even do what Privateer Press do and run separate tourneys for people who wish to play in a everything must be painted scenario. Really though I think my plea to Wyrd has to be don't make painting a requirement. I very rarely play tourneys, but if it were my chances of doing so would go from little to none probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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