Bexley Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 So, I'm working on my entry for GenCon, for the group category. It would be very thematically appropriate to cover them in blood spatter and gore. So much so, that it would actually be unexpected to not see them covered in guts. (No, they're not Khorne.) Of course, blood and gore is usually kind of amateurish, especially in the amounts that would be appropriate for my entry. Not to mention, covering up good paint jobs with red goo seems like a bad idea for a painting contest. I'm thinking of just restricting the gore to the bases. It would tie the bases together well, especially since the group itself is a bit rag-tag. But I'm still worried that it might come off as a bit amateurish. Of course, if I'm lucky, the judges will recognize who the group is, and will see the blood as appropriate to the entry. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonherald Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 So, I'm working on my entry for GenCon, for the group category. It would be very thematically appropriate to cover them in blood spatter and gore. So much so, that it would actually be unexpected to not see them covered in guts. (No, they're not Khorne.) Of course, blood and gore is usually kind of amateurish, especially in the amounts that would be appropriate for my entry. Not to mention, covering up good paint jobs with red goo seems like a bad idea for a painting contest. I'm thinking of just restricting the gore to the bases. It would tie the bases together well, especially since the group itself is a bit rag-tag. But I'm still worried that it might come off as a bit amateurish. Of course, if I'm lucky, the judges will recognize who the group is, and will see the blood as appropriate to the entry. Thoughts? Errr bit open there really.... If it is usually expected that these models (don't know what..p.m me if you wanna keep it secret I ain't going to Gencon so won't be competing :vb_devil:) but my initial answer is relatively simple really.... errr don't make it look amateurish..:laugh: If the blood is appropriate and doe well then it shouldn't be a problem... a lot of people do blood as an afterthought and slap it on but there are a ton of ways to make it better almost as many as say how to paint a mini better... some key points to think about.... 1... biggest mistake people make is scale...think how you want the blood or gore to splatter and paint it to the right scale...just try and see how small a blood drop or trickle would look at the scale of the model... I will find you some good examples and some bad ones... from my own pics.... 2.. colour... Blood is nearly always painted bright red but unless extremely fresh it ain't so.. Tamiya clear red is my favourite weapon of choice for wet blood.. But on it's own it is way too bright.. also the clear nature makes it a bit weird on some surfaces.. If I am taking my time I always underpaint the main area first in varying shades of red orange and green.. Then apply the red over it...also adding a bit of black paint or purple or both goes a long way to making a difference.Also if the blood lands on an absorbent surface it is different to if it lands on a non absorbent surface... 3..Spatter .. How did the blood get there and what would it's pattern be.. just watch CSI or if you have the stomach google image blood spatter.. different methods of spilling blood create different patterns and shapes of blood drips.. if the models are walking over it footsteps and smears are needed.. 4.. less can be more but sometimes all you need is gore.....it's possible to give a very bloodied effect without doing too much blood but sometimes it's just gotta be OTT mabe one o two models in the group could be blood heavy and others a little on the lighter side.... right will have a look for some pics....hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonherald Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 so had a quick look back on some earlier pieces and found lots of bad examples ....mostly on weapons but the principles are the same... check out the excellent in scale cross hatched blood on this ogre tyrant....as you can see large strokes no thought to pattern just kinda streaked on. On this butcher I've gone for a load the brush and blow technique which actually creates some nice spatter effects but is difficult to control but then again so is blood spatter ever seen a slaughterhouse mans apron.?? This Doombull axe shows I had learned a little bit.. The blown blood does look a bit better but how it got on the middle of the axe head like that who knows....??? A later piece shows a more refined method.. still a random element as that is the way to get more realistic looking blood streaks and spatter.. this one use Resin and tamiya clear red with a little purple mixed in.. loaded on a pin and kind of drizzled on then spread with the point of the pin in places... now for some plain old gratuitous gore.... bye deliberately sticking to brighter colours on these marines I was able to aesthetically keep the focus on the models whil at the same time drawing the curious critical eye into a world of pain and ......B*&lox I just plastered them with blood.. flicks blows and dollops .... then wheres there's blood there's khorne... These actually didn't look too bad ..(honest..) The blodd was done with Tamiya clear and vallejo water effects mixed.. when dry it creates a nice textured dark blood with a little transparency and works great when doing blood matted fur and the like.... Pigskin from Rotten harvest uses all the above techniques and didn't come out too bad.. pics suck but in the flesh the different textures and varying dgrees of wetness really did look quite creepy... hope they help a bit............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) I think I may PM you about it. As i said, though, I think I will be restricting the blood to the basing only. I was thinking of using an airbrush to apply the blood. If you lower the air pressure way way down, and sort of "flick" the trigger of a double-action brush, it spits out a somewhat controllable spray of spatter (often used as a technique for making star fields). I'd test the hell out of it before doing anywhere near a figure, though. Especially since the Tamiya clear red is a lot thicker than the thinned paint I've used in the past for this trick. Edited April 30, 2008 by Bexley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Grr... the topic should read "I have A question concerning Gencon. I learn talk now real good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblyn13 Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Grr... the topic should read "I have A question concerning Gencon. I learn talk now real good! Its alright Bexley we understand English isn't your first language :tongue2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 It's true. My first language is an obscure dialect of Awesome. I am also fluent in Kickass, Highfive, and Akkadian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblyn13 Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 And of course don't foget that obscure American Dialect, Minnersotan, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) Oh, yaaah. You betcha. I picked it up preparing lutefisk up in Bemidji, dontcha know. Seriously, though, there is only the faintest traces of that accent in the Twin Cities. You get close to the Brainerd area (about 150 miles north of here, and where much of Fargo takes place) and you start hearing it. But I think that's not uncommon- I know people from Georgia and Tennessee who only have the subtlest of southern accents, but I imagine you get outside of their major cities and it gets a lot thicker. (And "eh" is Canadian, not Minnesotan. I imagine you hear it a bit, being in Vancouver. Unless it's more of an Eastern Canadian thing, I suppose.) Edited April 30, 2008 by Bexley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblyn13 Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Well in Georgia, (personal experience) most of the folks in the Atlanta Metro area (the major city) a very large portion are transplants from other states, which I think is the case in a lot of major metropolitan areas. As you leave the metro areas you are more likely to get into the places with 3rd and 4th generation in large groups. Also accents are something that people can and do pick up (especially children); I used to pick up my cousin's Puerto Rican accent every time i spent more than a couple of days with them, when I was younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wren Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 In my experience Gen Con is predominately a painter's contest. What I mean by that is you're being judged by painterly type things - overall presentation, colour choice, technique, conveying a bit of story/setting through basing, stuff like that. Adherence to any sort of fluff is not to my knowledge a factor in the judging for the main awards. I wouldn't even assume that all the judges are going to be familiar with a particular mini line and its fluff. (Or if it's based on something like a movie or mythology, I wouldn't necessarily assume that all the judges will be familiar with that, no matter how ubiquitous it might seem.) Manufacturer awards are judged by reps from the manufacturers, who have their own criteria and probably would be very happy to see theme/fluff adherence. Looking at something with gore on the bases only seems like it might not make sense to me - how did the figures cause all that carnage without getting any on themselves? A small amount of judiciously placed gore on the figs to tie them into the base would seem necessary to me. Just enough to convey that they caused the carnage. As long as your skill and technique with the general painting is visible to be judged and the gore makes sense in the context of what you're doing I don't think the judges would write the entry off as amateurish for having gore. PaintMinion runs the contest, so hopefully she'll see this thread and give you a more authoritative answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 I agree with Wren, from what I've seen, it's 100% a painting contest and 0% fluff representation (unlike golden demons). I would focus on what makes each individual entry really work on it's own, and make look awesome when presented solely on it's own technical merits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 I wouldn't even assume that all the judges are going to be familiar with a particular mini line and its fluff. (Or if it's based on something like a movie or mythology, I wouldn't necessarily assume that all the judges will be familiar with that, no matter how ubiquitous it might seem.) Manufacturer awards are judged by reps from the manufacturers, who have their own criteria and probably would be very happy to see theme/fluff adherence. Yeah, that was my line of thinking. At first, it felt like not using gore would be detrimental. Then I realized that if no one knew the background, the blood might just seem superfluous and not integral, hence my new-found doubt as to how to paint them. Manufacturer's awards aren't a concern, as the figures are OOP and the company that made them has been out of business for years. In fact, if they were still easily available, I'd know what to do- I'd paint a gore-free set for GenCon, and a blood-soaked set to keep at home. I guess that part of the problem is that these are those "special" miniatures that a lot of people have- the ones that are hard to find or expensive, that you save until you feel your skills have progressed enough to do them justice, becuase you want them to be centerpieces of your collection. I think what I'm leaning towards now is no blood. Since it would likely be added after all of the other painting, I could always add it later after the contest for when I display them at home. Unless I win something, in which case I'd probably leave them as they were when I entered them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wren Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 That's a nice thing about blood and gore, you add them at the end so you do have the option of doing that. I'm pretty curious about what these models are and how you paint them, I'll have to keep a sharp eye on the cabinet in August. Though now I remember that I was toying with the idea of doing a unit entry, so my revised advice is to just dip 'em full in to a pot of red paint. It'll look great, the judges will love it! ;-> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaintMinion Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 The judges and I have conferred on this problem and have made an official ruling...The 2008 Gen Con Indy Miniatures Painting Competition will officially not hold Bexley's language skills against him when we judge his entry.:dancing2: Otherwise, listen to your gut. If the gore and blood is done well and obviously fits the group in your mind, it's up to you whether you can do it well or not. Gore done badly does not help you. Gore done well, might. Gore added may help you, or may not. There is no possible way to answer that--it's your decision. I can say that yes, we're a painter's contest. Don't care what manufacturer we're judging, don't care too much about background (you want to paint your skellies purple and your space marines pink, so be it). What we do want to see is minis painted well and presented well. A good mini tells a story, an action, hints that there's something happening to that mini, around that mini, and by that mini. That said, a standard pose can win as well if the paint job warrants it. You'll be judged by painters of various styles who will argue their way towards a winner's circle of entries. Just make sure you give them as few reasons to take your entry out of the running as possible. Anything else? Anyone else need special dispensation for language skills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted May 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 I miss one letter and now I'm a simpleton, while Suprevyke has yet to spell anyone's name correctly and he gets a pass. It's an outrage! Outrageous! I am clearly outraged over here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaintMinion Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 ...nope, no supervike on my list of language arts passes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted May 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 (edited) But... but... I'm the very model of a modern Verbal-General! I've information! Vegetable, animal, and mineral! Mineral!! Edited May 1, 2008 by Bexley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblyn13 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 uh-oh, he's gone on to quoting the HMS Gramaphore.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaintMinion Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Mineral, as in Iron?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted May 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 No, my knowledge of minerals primarily concerns Perlite, Sodium Silicate, and anhydrous Barium Oxide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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