EricJ Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 The fact is, that there is a line there between what is art and what is not. The problem is, that if you asked 100 different people where that line falls, you're likely to get 100 different answers. There are so many variables involved in this question, the answer is as complex as the human condition - in other words, everyone being unique will result in unique opinions. Other than the extremes (ie the school of thoughts that EVERYTHING is art, or essentually no one but the greats are art). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemunkie Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Just go and check out the website! It's not an 'art' exhibition. It's a biological and educational exhibition designed to raise peoples awareness of what is actually inside them, and how the things we do to our bodies can affect them adversely. The bodies were left to Von Hagens WITH THEIR USERS CONSENT! There are downloadable consent forms on the Body Worlds site and they are available at every exhibition. The guy probably has enough to last him a good while now... As for using human bodies, we've done it for years in the name of research, education and medical science. Thankfully people don't need to rob graves any more as we have (supposedly) become a touch more enlightened these days. As for a dead persons body degrading them, what gives you the right to decide what happens to MY body after I carc it. If I want some med-student hacking off my nipples it's my decision. Just as it would be if I were to leave my body to Gunther Von Hagens. It's just a piece of meat anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosch Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Of course I will not interfere with anyone who wants to do anything with his body. I am just telling you what I think about it - if someone wants to do it, it's their decision, but I still think it's a bad one. I don't want to say much more about the way the bodies were obtained until I find the source I had this from again, else there would be no real contribution to the discussion... Whatever, Körperwelten was not really the topic now.... and in lead I say everything goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegamer Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Idolators every one of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artshiraz Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 No hittin please On Minirealms was a thread about the "skeleton Church", somewhere in Skandinavia (Finnland? Don't remember). Some people found it excellent for a 40k Reference. Some people found it sickly strange, other agreed with the basic idea. One even saw something about the Church history on Discovery Channel and could point us others who hadn't seen into the history about why that church came to be. About two years ago there was an outcry as someone -an italian or hispanic I think- posted pictures of his medieval miniatures dungeon scene. It was a very realistic dungeon scene, with lots of devices, lots of (mostly females I think) victims, lots of blood. And a preacher with a gleefull face. I don't remember the URL, but about every time someone said to a sculptor "I would like a hostage, a victim", it was almost always compared to that page. Heck, I remember asking if it wasn't possible to get a shackled dwarf. (S)He was supposed to become a center piece of my Hirstart dungeon... As I couldn't very well use an armed one for a prisoner I asked for a bound one. That was almost to much back then. I do have the whole Shadowfarge Nun Team. Perhaps there are some Nuneries, Cloisters or what-do-I-know out there, who condemn the minis (or the company) because you see a nun in garters, or one made up a bit like a naughty school girl. Is that perturbing? To some perhaps, to me not. @Mosch: seems you were not the only one living door to door with such a club. But in mine the "guests" even came out laughing and in good mood. About "Körperwelten": you might find something at spiegel.de as they had a broad coverage. And I seem to remember some of the points you arged with. Oh ... and here's Dot @Klute: Really? Was there really an uprising because of the Narg&Gayle Scene? Amazing, I remember smiling slightly on FoD (?) when I saw the pic for the first time, because I found -and still find- the idea original and the execution top notch. To conclude: There are a lot of minis out there, and not all of them can please all of us. There are even a couple of minis I detest downright. And some where I am wondering about the mental sanity of the sculptor. But then.. What I like is not necessary what you like and vis-verca. So basicaly I agree with everything goes. Because who is to force me to spend money on minis I don't like at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadAsbestos Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 A body isn't a human. It is just a complex bag of goo. I like art that reminds us of that fact, and asks what has gone missing in the transition from "person" to corpse. But that's just me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegamer Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 It's not an 'art' exhibition. It's a biological and educational exhibition designed to raise peoples awareness of what is actually inside them, and how the things we do to our bodies can affect them adversely. I read a bit about this too. The maker of the figures has been accused of obtaining the bodies in dubious ways (e.g. buying dead prisoners from the Chinese government) but he denies it of course - there's no proof, but he made some of the work before he started using those consent forms. As to whether it's art, well, the maker wants it to be considered art according to an article I read. Why? Well, it was a cynical article. You see, his patent has run out and other people are now using his method of preservation. When that happened he started doing the body posing and display. If it's art, rather than science/education, then he can claim a copyright, which has much longer protection than patent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosch Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Ah! Thanks, vince, that cleared up a lot of half right knowledge I had about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemunkie Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 The exhibition is well worth going to see if it reaches your neck of the woods though Von Hagens conducted an autopsy live on national TV over here a few months back. He used a bunch of his plastinated bodies and parts of bodies as visual aids while he was doing it. It was extremely interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klute Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 I saw some of that Scott and amazing it was. Have to say though they could have used a more "normally" endowed male model. Unless "normal" is 10 inches slack. @Artshiraz Not so much a big deal on creafigs just a few were saying it was shit based on the belief I did it to put women down. It ended up OK though and got me talking with a few of the French guys. I had to explain it was all in the look of the female figure. Sort of looks like he is in control until you see her face then you realise she is the boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegamer Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I was just listening to an interview with a black American painter who recently died - can't remember his name. Anyway, he had done a painting 30+ years ago that made him famous. It was a KKK man raping a black woman. In the interview he was explaining that no one ever understood what he was painting. He said look at the woman. The subject of the painting isn't oppression, it's resistance. The black woman is strong and is going to fight tooth and nail for her rights - not going to let the economic establishment push her around (you were supposed to get this from the pinstripe suit you could make out under the Klan robes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I've watched some of those autopsy shows on the History or Learning Channel (can't remember which it is). Interesting, but sort of sickening as well seeing someone look like so much hamburger or moving the insides around or simply pulling them out to lay on the side of a person before doing whatever it was they wanted to do and stuffing you back up like a thanksgiving turkey. Bleah! As for the type of artwork that you were mentioning Vince, I'll be damned if I would have picked up on something like that. My mind doesn't really process what isn't obvious, I just see something and just take it for the face value it is, artwork like that is pretty much lost on me. I know, uncultured heathen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I think I dislike the surgery channel more (I think it's called "discovery life" or something like that). It's when you're looking at organs that are in fact still moving and stuff, blech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 .... or simply pulling them out to lay on the side of a person before doing whatever it was they wanted to do and stuffing you back up like a thanksgiving turkey. My gosh, that sounds like what happened during my c-section! There wasn't any "art" created that day but I think I created an artist, since my daughter's recently started to like painting Maybe I'll get her in the next contest! :tongue2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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