Reinstate the governor’s secretary! Make Lucius great again!

[Regelridderen]

Lucy and his lawyers are one of the coolest and most unique concepts, I’ve ever seen in any war game. Trouble is… They seem to get caught in their own red tape these days, and the efficiency is … on the level of public offices under political scrutiny. It might be very much in theme, but even if ‘faux is flavourful that’s too much of an rpg experience.

We got Lucy2, and although he is fun to play and more efficient at his thing, his ‘thing’ of being an Assassins Creed knock-off just seems a little off. While not doing much for his keyword as such - but he works, people like him, so let’s leave it at that.

Instead, I’d love a speculative thread on how to improve his first version, and his keywords, to play effectively within the secret police/faceless bureaucrat theme, Just for the fun of it, and if some wyrd designer would happen to fall upon it and draw some inspiration for an errata, even better.

So, let’s have a go at it.

[Regelridderen]

Let’s start with the master manipulator Lucius himself.

FRONT OF CARD

His front of card is fairly okay in theme. His defensive skills might be a bit subpar, Serene Countenance only encourages models to focus against him and make damage more extreme, and it’s also fairly straightforward for a ‘tricksy’ character. I’d love to see some disruption here, like Mood Swings or Silent Control, something that makes fighting Lucius a pain. Maybe Know The Warrior to keep in line with the crews card draw -shtick, so you might deal him damage, but you won’t drain his resources.

There are two issues with it. Entourage is a sad ability in a game, where you don’t want your master to Walk. And as Lucius only bonus action is Misinformation, Nimble might be a good addition.

BACK OF CARD

Here is Lucius big problems. He’s a mix of lacklustre gunplatform and Issue Command is basically making your Master do ‘nothing’ - in the cool sense.

Fancy Cane. Very cool ability (thematically), I like that it’s clear that Lucius isn’t a damage dealer. But give the ability some master level purpose at least. Bump the stat up to 6 or maybe even 7 (he is supposed to be a master fancer after all). Make it his defense, build in the Tome to hand out Distracted, add a Stagger -trigger for synergy with the keyword, and you’ll suddenly want a plan for engaging him – like any other Master.

Hidden Sniper. Really cool ability as well, but having your master stand and shoot thrice for 2/3/4 won’t win you games, and it certainly won’t feel rewarding. Compared to Zoraidas arced Obey, or Lord Cooper and Seamus’ big guns, it feels like you brought a drawing of a gun to Verdunne.

I’d love to see it become a bonus action. Up the stat to 6, so you can force it through on most models change the damage to 2/3/5+Injured with a wealth of triggers, so Lucius is prepared for everything ie. Ram = Devastating Strike, Crow = Execute, Mask = Stagger, Tome = Drop a scheme marker. It would become an important moment in any turn, but also make it a consideration on when to activate Lucius. 

Issue Command

I’d love to see something more on this, so you’re not just exchanging master level actions for minion level. Triggers to hand out focus, or drop scheme markers would be cool and in theme. Maybe build on a trigger for Elite/Mimic or even separates to encourage playing in keyword, as opposed to hiring in Nephilim.

You could also bake in a trigger for if Lucius were to command himself (to walk), meaning you could get value out of the Entourage ability.

Misinformation

I have no strong feelings. My biggest issue was that it was Lucius only bonus action.

[Regelridderen]

Investigators are some of my favourite models, yet also some of the least useful.

Expensive minions with no staying power. The potential to do decent damage, yet it’s often too clunky to work in reality. Two investigators and a False Witness will get you across the field fast, but once you’re there, your biggest trick seem to be turning them into corpse markers.

FRONT OF CARD

A bunch of really cool abilities. Indeed the Investigators biggest issue is that his out-of-activation outshines his activation, and he is looking a lot more interesting in GG4 than he did ever before. Reducing his cost to 6, could be a way of making him worthwhile, where he doesn’t compete with Henchman/Enforcers.

BACK OF CARD

Garrote is pretty cool, if you get Staggered out beforehand, but in my experience, this rarely turns out ‘right’. I’d love to see the crow baked into the attack as well.

INTERROGATE

Not much to see here. I’d love to see it renamed to Halt! Police! And taget Mv instead for more synergy with the Keywords ability to hand out Staggered , though. But it’s an ability that gained a lot from GG4.

ACTIVE CRIME SCENE

Really cool thematic ability. Unfortunately a bit too passive, even disruptive to his own FOC abilities. Adding a trigger like I’d better secure this! - remove a scheme marker and heal 2. Could go hand in hand with making him more durable, or one to drop one himself would make him a great schemer model - and set up his FOC-abilities. Or A New Horizon to yeet that troublesome evidence out of sight.

Indeed expanding on Active Crime Scene more than the rest can really make this model come into it’s own right, in a game where you want your models to be able to make three significant actions.

[Regelridderen]

False Witnesses are right up there with Investigators. They’re some of the most characterful models, and their theme really tells the story of Lucius’ morals.

FRONT OF CARD

Phew! There’s a lot. And it’s all very cool. An extra Ht. Wouldn’t hurt, so a single focused gunshot wouldn’t kill her. Yet, again these aren’t heroes, and they’re innocent bystanders.

If anything, give them Nimble so their bonus action can count for something. And it would fit the theme that they’re quick to get into position to ‘witness’ the crime.

I could also imagine them with Heightened Senses as they get themselves in the mood to shout J’accuse! If the speed of getting Nimble would be too much. Focused might not do much for the model, but it would put less of a resource drain on your hand, as you set up the kill.

BACK OF CARD

J’accuse! Is a really cool ability. But I don’t think it’d hurt balance to expand Adversary(Elite) to include Mimic. 

That’s it really.

[Regelridderen]

Guild Lawyers, everyone loves these guys…

FRONT OF CARD

Chatty, Tools… Annoying and useful. Nice.

BACK OF CARD

Obey it’s cool that you can transfer actions. But I’d love to see an action that would be generally useful, once your squishy crew has been decimated.

Maybe Interrogate. Wouldn’t that be thematic - with Stagger on a mask and and Draw Out Secrets on a tome. You’d get hand pressure and synergy with Investigators.

I wouldn’t let it completely replace Obey, as one of the key and unique strengths of the Lucius crew is that you can’t really tell, when a model is ‘done’.

[Regelridderen]

Agent 46 - he used to be so cool, or usable at least. Then he became useless… I always compare him to Lord Cooper’s robot, and always think, that it got the role of the super ninja that was meant for Agent 46

FRONT OF CARD

Underwhelming. A close combat model with Stealth as it’s only defence. That’s underwhelming…Intimidating Authority, Combat Finesse, Know The Warrior, Adaptive, Df6 would all fit the theme of our bladed assassin - maybe not all of them, but a combination.

BACK OF CARD

Build in the ram for his Twirling Blades Min3 is such a stable in beater models. And even when your hand is bled out, you’ll feel that this guy can accomplish something. I’d love to switch Pouncing Strike for Coordinated Attack/Stagger. Out of activations and Staggered is the crew’s shtick after all, and there are plenty of pouncing models in other keywords. Or throw in a Draw Out Secrets to keep with the theme.

Analyze Weakness The most useful part is the On Your Heels Trigger. 

Inhuman Physiology put it back on front of card. The errata killed the model. Instead remove Mimic so you can’t exploit it with Guard Rifles etc.

Instead give our Agent a bonus action that help him do his job, like Heightened Senses or Juggernaut. Or how about Lucy2’s Down The Wrong Path.

 

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

Oh boy, hmm.

 

I quite like the false witness.  I think +1 hitpoint is enough for me.

 

I don't think lawyers need anything, though they are in a weird place where they kind of step on Lucius 1 toes.  However,  I'm not sure people would be happy if they moved away from that.  A reposition trigger on the obey would be nice, but that's me being greedy.

 

Slap flurry on Agent 46 and done.  When he gets to you, he's stabbing.

 

Ah yes, the Investigator.  Garrote is clunky when combined with the models rules.  Range 0 makes sense.  Maybe give the model +2MV to charges.  Make garrote a 2/3/4 with a +1 damage for stagger.  Slippery, perhaps?

 

But at the end of the day you are spending many points and actions in order for your 7 cost model the equal of other teams 7 cost models.  Crookskins and ranged stagger help with that.  However, they still just aren't really there.  I think I'm going to have to think about that a bit.

 

I'm gonna have to get back to you on Lucius 1, because he has some hurdles to overcomes.  I wouldn't mind another trigger on Issue Command to make giving up your master AP a little more efficient.

 

[justsomeguy]

Overall some cool ideas, but have to be careful buffing all of these models as Lucy 2 is already competitive. I think Lucy1 should support the Elite keyword.

Love the idea of adding a trigger to walk Lucius on issue command.  I've felt that Entourage could push all friendly models up to 2 inches regardless of engagement. That would really help the crews' 0" melees while also fitting theme of slippery bureaucrats.  Issue command should also gain Preparations to hand out focus on a tome. Maybe even raise the tn and build in the tome. I think it also would be thematic to allow arcing (draw los and range) through another elite or mimic within range. At the least Issue Command needs to ignore concealment.

Misinformation rarely feels good, but with extra walks to maneuver around it may not need anything else. An interesting change you could also put hidden sniper as a bonus action and give it better stat and/or draw out secrets.

Finally to buff the crew Lucius needs a defensive ability that extends to his keywords. Something like salvage site that targets a scheme marker and reduces all damage by 2.  Or maybe a front of card aura that allows models to remove a scheme marker to reduce damage to 0.

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

Issue Command ignores concealment already because it is a tactical action.

 

For Lucius 1:

If he had Arcane Reservoir +2 or something it would go a long ways. 

 

Fancy cane needs to go away.  It will never get used.  Some sort of drip related insult would work.  A condition of some kind, with a potential of a a distracted pulse or something.  Something to help assist the crew survive.  You are lesser than him, he knows it, and he will put you in your place.  Get insulted by him and people will notice.

 

An ability to react to opponents performing out of activation actions would be nice too.  Or, give him "I knew you were going to do that" to deny enemy triggers.

[trikk]

2 minutes ago, Brilliance Laced Whiskey said:

Issue Command ignores concealment already because it is a tactical action.

 

For Lucius 1:

If he had Arcane Reservoir +2 or something it would go a long ways. 

I think Lucius1 gets so many cards, cards are not an issue with him. The issue is that Issue Command is fundamentally flawed. Trading a master AP is not worth a non-master AP

[Regelridderen]

13 hours ago, Brilliance Laced Whiskey said:

I don't think lawyers need anything, though they are in a weird place where they kind of step on Lucius 1 toes.  However,  I'm not sure people would be happy if they moved away from that.  A reposition trigger on the obey would be nice, but that's me being greedy.

My view is that Lawyers are a good place to build synergy for the crew, ie. If they could Stagger, they’d go a long way to enable Alan and the Investigators to make their Garrotes worthwhile.

Of course, they’re obviously already good, as you see them OOK. But there is also a shift in minion design - newer minions are far more useful, like the internal synergy on the Crookskins being able to Stagger and having a Mv attack etc.

10 hours ago, Brilliance Laced Whiskey said:

Fancy cane needs to go away.  It will never get used.  Some sort of drip related insult would work.  A condition of some kind, with a potential of a a distracted pulse or something.  Something to help assist the crew survive.  You are lesser than him, he knows it, and he will put you in your place.  Get insulted by him and people will notice.

 

An ability to react to opponents performing out of activation actions would be nice too.  Or, give him "I knew you were going to do that" to deny enemy triggers.

I don’t mind the gentleman’s flair of Fancy Cane, obviously Lucius shouldn’t be a beater master, but having an engagement range is surprisingly important, but the role of the attack should be defensive/obstructive. Showing his superiority in playing with his kill, playing for time, then having his ‘minions’ finish the job. That’s why I suggested adding defensive traits to the otherwise ineffective 2/3/4 attack.

I love the idea of him sabotaging OOAs. Although it might be too much of a counter to Obey-masters like Mama Z. 

[Da Git]

I think there are 2 big problems in the keyword/s

1. Glass models without the hammer - Intimidating Authority is really meh in the current era.
2. The lack of decent bonus actions. Most models in the game (even at the time) are generally 2.5-3 actions, whereas Elite/Mimic are 2-2.5 actions.

Lets look at the bonus actions:

Elite

• Lucius1: Eh. Misinformation - not bad but not amazing... the big thing here is the short range. Lucy doesn't want to be that close! Definitely dated.
• Lucius2: You have your orders - Awsome and in line with the titles.
• The Scribe: Eh. I've got your Back - situational, but ok for a W1, support Totem
• Agent 46: Eh. Inhuman - agree this should go back to the front of the card (but should be limited to this model's actions only, so doesn't work with Mimic). Mimic - Good, but doesn't have any triggers and still limits him to 2 AP.
• Alan Reid: Good bonuses
• Investigator: Eh. Active Crime Scene - way too short ranged on a squishy model
• Lawyer: - Impassioned Defence - Great
• False Witness: - Eh. Good, but again way too short-ranged on a squishy model support model.

Verdict - 5 out of 8 Eh. bonus actions

 

Mimic

• Klaus: Eh? Short ranged attack that opponent can choose the lesser of two evils
• Doppelganger: Good. but still just a 2 AP model. Mimic can be busted though.
• White Eyes: Eh. see Agent 46 above.
• Cavatica: Good.
• Crookskin: Amazing (it's new!)
• Changeling: Good after the errata.

 

So my ideas:

• Lucius 1: Complete Rework but give him a fair bit of Staggered synergy.
• Agent 46: Put Inhuman back on the front (but only affects attacks on this card, so no Mimic shenanigans). Give him Butterfly Jump. Move On your heels to Mimic and give it the Mask built-in - one of the coolest scenes is where Agent just stretches an impossible distance to hoist "Graecina" up by the throat! Give Analyse Weakness the Coordinated Attack trigger to make the action somewhat worth taking.
• Alan Reid: Needs Slippery
• Investigators: Needs Slippery. Although it doesn't super fit the theme, Entrancing would be really good on them. It would make Intimidating Authority actually good and allow them to get close enough to use their bonus without just dying. Would also buff the toughness of the other squishy models like False Witnesses.
• False Witnesses: Change Manipulative to First to Speak. They want to go early to J'accuse and put up their bonus aura.
• White Eyes: Again, move Inhuman to the front. Give him a bonus action that shows him travelling the Changepaths. What about Unimpeded and Nature Spirit (teleport 6" to Severe).

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

Lucius:

 

Arcane Reservoir

Serene Coutenance

I knew you were going to do that

Hostile work environment

Subterfuge

Maybe a once per turn, pick a suit of your choice before an action, or add +1 to an action (mainly because Im a little wary of making Hidden Sniper stat 6 with a crit strike... but Angel exists so whatever).

 

 

Hidden sniper is fine.  Maybe add another condition trigger.

Misinformation is fine.

 

Issue command:

-Focus Trigger (once per activation)

-immediately this model pushes 2 trigger

-remove condition trigger

-trigger of a 1 inch pulse of WP13 or gain staggered

 

 

 

I still don't know what I'd replace fancy can with.  

 

I think these things make him feel like he knows an opponents game plan before the game starts.

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

Oh, and replace the Dopple's manipulative with Serene countenance. 

[justsomeguy]

Lucius, lore wise, feels like he could use a set of plan upgrades ala Ivan2. His could be called contracts and trigger when a friendly model dies. Summon a mimic minion in base. Another hidden sniper gets to shoot the killing model, maybe this one is a better shot stat 6 with unique triggers. Drop scheme marker on death. Or prevent interacts for the turn in an aura around corpse marker.

Another idea that builds off the weak bonus actions of the crew. Lean into scheme master with a reworked "shouting orders" to be "whispered orders" allow friendly mimic/elite to discard a card to treat interact as bonus action.

Still think a great tweak is allowing Entourage to push engaged models and build in a trigger for Lucius to walk on issue command.

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

How about some out of the box thinking for investigators?

 

Like they can give out a single "Person of interest upgrade" to an enemy model.

 

It makes it slightly more difficult to do the things the model wants.  It's like the Investigator is looking into their actions and doing research.

 

Damages a friendly model?  After resolving the damaged model gets shielded +1.  If the friendly model is an "innocent bystander", the shielding is immediate.

 

Enemy model interacts?  This model can lock down a 1 inch area an enemy scheme marker within 3 of the target where no enemy attack actions may be taken.

 

That sort of thing.

 

Then also have it where if they meet X number of conditions on the "person of interest" upgrade within a single turn, it becomes a "Target acquired" upgrade, which makes the models life miserable, and benefits the elite crew.  Like all Elite models gain Adversary against the target.

 

Bonus points if it can work in tandem with a Lawyers obey to frame the target (like they are planting evidence to screw the target over).

 

They set you up, and if they meet the conditions, bad things happen.

[Da Git]

An idea for 46 I've been pondering.

Keep him basically the same. Add some defensive stuff to the front such as Butterfly Jump or Combat Finesse. Give Analyse Weakness Coordinated Attack. Keep Inhuman Physiology a bonus, remove Mimic and change it to something like Hannah's Adaptive Tactics:

Anything you can do - Rn:6, Stat:6, Tn:11
Other Friendly Mimic or Elite. Take one of the target's Tactical Actions that do not attach upgrades or list a model by name.

I can do better: Immediately. The chosen action gains .

 

This limits the shenanigans he can pull to only his keywords (no more copying Gatling guns or giant Living Blades!) but lets him do things like issue orders, jump from building to building, put out auras, dispose or plant evidence, etc.

I think it'd be really fluffy and actually give him a third AP or can put out his no-cheat attacks if needed with Inhuman.

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

I think a big issue with Lucius overall is a bit layered.

 

1.  He has a lot of tech peices.

2.  Beaters need the tech peices to unlock their potential.  They can kind of do it themselves, but it will often be for just a single action if they do.

3.  The entire crew is squishy by design (with some of the recent mimic stuff breaking the mold).  Now the card advantage is supposed to help that, but even a simple 2/3/4 model is dangerous to this crew if attacks get through.

4.  Even if you do the setup, the payoff just isn't enough.

 

This makes Lucius want to spend the first 1/3 of a turn setting up his models.  However, because they are squishy, and when the games gets hectic, a lot of that planning is going straight out the window in favor of priority targets.  Your expensive 7 point beater is now a fancy looking corpse as the pressure if being applied around the crew.  This results in a lot of points invested in things that just never really pay off if your opponent applies pressure (and being Lucius, they will aim to apply pressure).

 

Yes, all crews have to pick and choose their battles.  But all the reasons listed above just compound it with Lucius.  You sort of start at a net negative, and that deficit just sort of gets larger and larger.

 

 

This results in players just gravitating towards the versatile/OoK model that's a few points more, but requires none of the setup.

 

 

In keyword you are spending a lot of points that rarely pay off.

 

Now if Lucius 1's issue command could allow elite/mimic to do bonus actions, you could get some payoff by opening with Lucy.

 

The old Changelings help assist with that burden with "Just Like You", but as the faction expanded that ability just couldn't be on a minion anymore (just imagine all the information exchange).

 

I'll continue these thoughts later.