Jedza - Life of the Earth questions

[Paddywhack]

OK, so I'm dipping out of Ressers for something close but not quite and trying out Jedza. I've only got a couple of games and still looking/learning the best way to play Seekers.

My questions arise from Life of the Earth and what constitutes a 'terrain piece'. Obviously she can target Moorwraiths themselves as well as Kurgan itself (if Mudslide is up), but could she target the Auras that surround those models instead of the model itself?

For the Kurgan that is a huge area if you Pulse 2" off of it's 3" Aura that can hand out Distracted +1 and Staggered. And since it's a pulse would not hit anyone completely within 3" of the Kurgan.

Obviously if you want to do damage you have to target the model itself and Pulse from there, but curious how it's been ruled/played. It's a weird action that I fee like could have a number of strange interactions on the table. 

[solkan]

I don't think so.  While terrain markers are (at least indirectly) included as a type of terrain piece (for example, the terrain markers rules say "All Markers with the same name (i.e., Pyre Markers, Pit Trap Markers, etc.) count as the same piece of terrain for the purposes of the Hazardous Terrain Trait", there end up being multiple types of terrain:

• terrain pieces
  • terrain markers
• auras

 

Terrain auras do interact with effects like Grave Goo's Trail of Slime which uses the term "terrain" and not "terrain piece".  

Quote

9. * Grave Goo – If the Grave Goo is within range of an Aura Terrain that only affects “enemy models,” such as Vent Steam, do models the Grave Goo considers an enemy treat the Aura Terrain as Hazardous from the Trail of Slime Ability?
a) Yes. The Grave Goo is considered to be in base contact with the terrain, and enemy models will treat the Aura Terrain as

Hazardous (Damage 1 and Poison +1), even though they are not affected by the normal Hazardous damage of Vent Steam.

But I think this is one of those situations where you have to accept that not all terrain are terrain pieces, just like some markers are models.

[Paddywhack]

That was my confusion as there isn't a good definition of 'terrain piece'. Terrain, yes, but not 'piece'. It felt a bit strong to do it off an aura, but I sometimes pick the weaker interpretation to try and be fair and sometimes I'm shorting myself. I was curious how others are playing it so I'm not short changing myself. 

[santaclaws01]

On 8/14/2023 at 11:34 PM, solkan said:

I don't think so.  While terrain markers are (at least indirectly) included as a type of terrain piece (for example, the terrain markers rules say "All Markers with the same name (i.e., Pyre Markers, Pit Trap Markers, etc.) count as the same piece of terrain for the purposes of the Hazardous Terrain Trait", there end up being multiple types of terrain:

• terrain pieces
  • terrain markers
• auras

 

Terrain auras do interact with effects like Grave Goo's Trail of Slime which uses the term "terrain" and not "terrain piece".  

But I think this is one of those situations where you have to accept that not all terrain are terrain pieces, just like some markers are models.

No, terrain auras are absolutely meant to be terrain pieces. Every time people ask "but is thus *really* just like any other terrain" the answer has been yes. 

 

From the rule book:

Quote

 

Every terrain piece has one or more traits that

determine how it interacts with models. For terrain of

particularly large or complex pieces of terrain, it makes

sense to assign traits to individual elements or smaller

areas of that terrain.

 

 

Every other instance of the term "terrain piece" in the rules, model cards, and FAQ is clearly just using it in lieu of saying "a single piece of terrain". What justification could there be for saying that aura terrain is not a terrain piece.

[Chesterthemany]

Yes, the auras count as terrain pieces. The only thing that might prevent her from TARGETING a terrain aura is if SHE counts it as terrain - for instance, some (like Field of Steel) say ENEMIES treat the aura as hazardous (or other things) - since she's not treating it as hazardous, that aura has no terrain traits to her, and thus, is not terrain. Other than that, if it has terrain traits, you target it all you want.

Now, if an aura says friendly models IGNORE THE TERRAIN TRAITS, she can still target it. She's ignoring the traits, but she still sees it HAS them.

[Paddywhack]

On 8/20/2023 at 10:57 AM, Chesterthemany said:

Yes, the auras count as terrain pieces. The only thing that might prevent her from TARGETING a terrain aura is if SHE counts it as terrain - for instance, some (like Field of Steel) say ENEMIES treat the aura as hazardous (or other things) - since she's not treating it as hazardous, that aura has no terrain traits to her, and thus, is not terrain. Other than that, if it has terrain traits, you target it all you want.

I'm not sure this aligns with the FAQ about Grave Goo. In this FAQ your interpretation would mean a different answer I think. In your interpretation, the Friendly models wouldn't consider it 'terrain' so shouldn't be affected, but the FAQ clearly says the opposite. The 'terrain' is there, regardless of who is affected by it.

9. *Grave Goo – If the Grave Goo is within range of an Aura Terrain that only affects “enemy models,” such as Vent Steam, do models the Grave Goo considers an enemy treat the Aura Terrain as Hazardous from the Trail of Slime Ability? a) Yes. The Grave Goo is considered to be in base contact with the terrain, and enemy models will treat the Aura Terrain as Hazardous (Damage 1 and Poison +1), even though they are not affected by the normal Hazardous damage of Vent Steam

I'm not opposed to her being able to target the Aura from the Kergan (it 'feels' like she should), but I want to be sure I'm playing it as others are. That's why I wanted to see what others had to say. 

[Chesterthemany]

6 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

I'm not sure this aligns with the FAQ about Grave Goo. In this FAQ your interpretation would mean a different answer I think. In your interpretation, the Friendly models wouldn't consider it 'terrain' so shouldn't be affected, but the FAQ clearly says the opposite. The 'terrain' is there, regardless of who is affected by it.

9. *Grave Goo – If the Grave Goo is within range of an Aura Terrain that only affects “enemy models,” such as Vent Steam, do models the Grave Goo considers an enemy treat the Aura Terrain as Hazardous from the Trail of Slime Ability? a) Yes. The Grave Goo is considered to be in base contact with the terrain, and enemy models will treat the Aura Terrain as Hazardous (Damage 1 and Poison +1), even though they are not affected by the normal Hazardous damage of Vent Steam

I'm not opposed to her being able to target the Aura from the Kergan (it 'feels' like she should), but I want to be sure I'm playing it as others are. That's why I wanted to see what others had to say. 

So the trick here is, it's an ENEMY'S vent steam that the GRAVE GOO is inside - ergo, he's counting it as terrain, and then spreading HIS aura to the terrain - making the enemies suddenly also count it as terrain.

[Paddywhack]

15 hours ago, Chesterthemany said:

So the trick here is, it's an ENEMY'S vent steam that the GRAVE GOO is inside - ergo, he's counting it as terrain, and then spreading HIS aura to the terrain - making the enemies suddenly also count it as terrain.

He doesn't have an Aura really. He turns 'terrain' into Hazardous terrain. I can see where you are coming from, but I'm not sure I agree with the interpretation. 

Either way, it sounds like my original question about Jedza targeting terrain Auras may be interpreted differently by players. I realized if Terrain Auras can be targeted she could target an enemy model's terrain aura. Something like Amo No Zako's 4" aura off their 50mm base is giant. It would only give 1dmg and Staggered, but still. 

[Paddywhack]

Looking more closely in the rulebook I think there is pretty clear evidence that Terrain Auras are 'terrain pieces'. p37 electronic - a terrain piece has one or more terrain traits. Aura Terrain - these auras are treated as terrain for all purposes. 

So I think I'll play her as such unless I find other rules that indicate otherwise. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't overstepping. It does up her offensive potential in some cases, but more for denial (staggered, distracted, ping) than outright damage as I don't think any Auras have the Impassable trait. 

[santaclaws01]

7 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

He doesn't have an Aura really. He turns 'terrain' into Hazardous terrain. I can see where you are coming from, but I'm not sure I agree with the interpretation. 

Either way, it sounds like my original question about Jedza targeting terrain Auras may be interpreted differently by players. I realized if Terrain Auras can be targeted she could target an enemy model's terrain aura. Something like Amo No Zako's 4" aura off their 50mm base is giant. It would only give 1dmg and Staggered, but still. 

The goo making it's own aura or not isn't really relevant, they just misspoke. The grave goo is making terrain that it sees and enemies don't, and applying traits to it that enemies see. Vent steam will become a hazardous aura with different traits based on what models are looking at it. But to have Jedza use life of the earth, she is going to be using the traits that she perceives it to have.

[Paddywhack]

I'm still not 100% sold, but it's not something I'm willing to make a big deal of. I can understand the argument. It's a pretty small number of cases and doesn't break anything. 

Now I'm going to go try and set off a pulse from Ama No Zako's 4" Aura