The Carver - Opportunist (Focused) timing

[regleant]

Opportunist (Focused): Before performing an opposed duel, this model may end the Focused condition to receive a positive flip to that duel.

 

When The Carver declares an attack against a model with Focused, does the target of the attack get to use Focused before it is ended by Opportunist? And specifically where in the timing allows it? I've tried following the timing charts but none seem to apply to this situation. Or I'm blind. The latter sometimes happens..

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

Carver can end the Focused condition before the target can use Focused as long as Carver is controlled by the Active Player (so realistically only during Carver's activation). Simultaneous effects detail the timing for resolving effects generated at the same time; both Opportunist and Focus resolve prior to performing the duel and as such are beholden to that timing.

[Yore Huckleberry]

2 hours ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

Carver can end the Focused condition before the target can use Focused as long as Carver is controlled by the Active Player (so realistically only during Carver's activation). Simultaneous effects detail the timing for resolving effects generated at the same time; both Opportunist and Focus resolve prior to performing the duel and as such are beholden to that timing.

This is more or less the correct answer, but for a slightly incorrect reason:
Carver's Opportunist takes place at step 2.d.I (Modify the Duel -- in this case, Opportunist is an "other game effect"). But it's simply "Attacking model first" per the timing rules for duels; you aren't actually in simultaneous effects here, so you don't have to reference the Active player.

So, a model attacking Carver would have the choice to reduce Focus before Carver would have the choice to remove a Focused via Opportunist.
Carver attacking a model would have the opportunity to remove a Focus via Opportunist before the defending model would have the opportunity to reduce Focused.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

On 4/20/2022 at 10:20 AM, Yore Huckleberry said:

This is more or less the correct answer, but for a slightly incorrect reason:
Carver's Opportunist takes place at step 2.d.I (Modify the Duel -- in this case, Opportunist is an "other game effect"). But it's simply "Attacking model first" per the timing rules for duels; you aren't actually in simultaneous effects here, so you don't have to reference the Active player.

So, a model attacking Carver would have the choice to reduce Focus before Carver would have the choice to remove a Focused via Opportunist.
Carver attacking a model would have the opportunity to remove a Focus via Opportunist before the defending model would have the opportunity to reduce Focused.

"Attacking model first" is a summarization of the Simultaneous Effects rule and how it applies to that step.

 

EDIT: Another reason to not blindly follow the Timing Structure summary is that it is only for the Active Player's activation. Carver will not be able to rip focus prior to the target using focus if making an attack while the opposing player is the Active Player.