Help with Game setup to help friend get into the game

[Shakyor]

So something a bit different - I have a friend who really has a good strategical mind and kind off got off malifaux because he said the upfront cost in time investment was just too high.

Especially crew building. He found it pretty frustrating having to read basically his and the opponents entire faction, to properly prepare for a game. Now you can say, he can just start playing with the models he has and learn from there. Sure , but to him (and i understand) it was frustrating when he felt he already lost at crew select because he took obviously terrible models into the opponent, or the opponent had an obvious strategy he cant answer but should have been able to. (Stuff like taking ruthless into jack daw)

So he asked, to maybe learn the game and the factions, if I could just prepare fun games where I write both lists which are close to a competitive setting, but written like two competent players would have created them in reality. So he can just focus on understanding these two lists, the encounter and how it all interacts. I think that is pretty fair. So I am considering what would be best. He already played Jacob back in the day, so I think of just taking him since he has the models and spent some time understanding him. So what would be fun game between any resser master and any jacob version which would be realistic in a tournament setting in your opinion? Maybe even with some interesting ques for a game plan for him.

[Maniacal_cackle]

One issue is that you can't really just take a list and know why each model was chosen.

Against Jakob I'm taking Manos. But not to run him in and bash with the aura (he'll die). To operate as a skirmish fighter splashing out staggered (which is super brutal for that crew and means huggy never wants to be within 2" of a wp 5 model) as well as capping objectives, but swapping to melee mode when needed.

Which is an entirely different role from what manos is doing if I'm against zoraida (where he can efficiently double tap silurids to kill it, so his primary duty is getting near models and killing them
So if it were me, what I'd do is develop one list for him to face, and then let him know the list in advance and see if he can build his own understanding and battleplan.

And try that 2-3 times with the same list.

For me, Kirai represented the 'how the hell do i beat this', and after 2-5 games i figured out how to beat her myself.

That's really the best way to learn in malifaux IMO. Face something and puzzle out how to beat it

That said... If you give me a pool Ill give you a molly list against lynch xD

[Shakyor]

Hmm I think he knows what he wants , so i prefer to stick with his wishes. I think this is exactly the level he is looking for.

He basically just wants two competitve lists were expected win ratios should be 50/50 with equally competent opponents and figure that game out and not feel like he already is at 30/70 just because of list building. (For example taking no rutheless models into jack daw or something. But I actually think it is pretty common in Malifaux.)

 

Of course I also dont want this to be a volatile game where its over in t2 with one alpha strike. So I wonder what is a fun encounter. Right now I am considering playing Mc2 against him, because he is fun and not a steam roll master and seem like its fair into jacob. Maybe something like Turf war? It seems like something Jacob 2 would be attratice to me as a TT player? Because between Gwyn, Jacob and Leader Hugg the crew seems really tanky and mobile enough for turf wars.

[Shakyor]

He basically wants to not worry about list building and just focus on the game for now.

Maybe Molly is a good call as well though! She is pretty unoppresive xD

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

11 minutes ago, Shakyor said:

He basically wants to not worry about list building and just focus on the game for now.

Maybe Molly is a good call as well though! She is pretty unoppresive xD

 

Oh are you playing as the resser player?

Molly can be super rough for Huggy in theory... If he alpha strikes there's a good chance huggy will die. Though would take some pretty precise work xD

[Shakyor]

Yeah he does want to play against me.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Well, without knowing the matchup that well and without knowing the pool...

New Molly Squidpiddge Crew (Resurrectionist)
Size: 50 - Pool: 3
Leader:
  Molly Squidpiddge
Totem(s):
  Necrotic Machine
Hires:
  Archie
    Killer Instinct
  Dead Rider
  Manos, The Risen
  Crooligan
  Student of Viscera
    Killer Instinct
References:
  Mindless Zombie
  Reliquary (Manos)

That could work well on something like leylines?

The key thing is you want Archie with killer instinct, Manos, and Dead Rider.

With activation control from Molly, you can use Dead Rider to reap Huggy into Manos aura and then just drop a bunch of damage into him.

[Shakyor]

So lets go through our masters:

Mc1+2: Both good choices I feel, dynamic games, not too oppresive. I think there is some condition removal in TT i could give him.
Jack Daw1+2: Both terrible for the other player and too oppresive.

Kirai Ankoku1+2: Also feel this is too early, lets do this some other time

Molly1+2: Both fine I feel

Reva 1: Yes, Reva 2 is probably too weird.

Schtook 1+2: Too strong and frustrating

Seamus: Punishes Mistakes too hard.

Yan Lo: Again too Oppresives.


So I feel, either Mc, Reva or Molly probably.

 

[Shakyor]

2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Well, without knowing the matchup that well and without knowing the pool...

New Molly Squidpiddge Crew (Resurrectionist)
Size: 50 - Pool: 3
Leader:
  Molly Squidpiddge
Totem(s):
  Necrotic Machine
Hires:
  Archie
    Killer Instinct
  Dead Rider
  Manos, The Risen
  Crooligan
  Student of Viscera
    Killer Instinct
References:
  Mindless Zombie
  Reliquary (Manos)

That could work well on something like leylines?

The key thing is you want Archie with killer instinct, Manos, and Dead Rider.

With activation control from Molly, you can use Dead Rider to reap Huggy into Manos aura and then just drop a bunch of damage into him.

Oh this actually sounds like a cool mix of models and quite fair. Could also work on symbols of authority.

I mean I can also just tell him to watch out for movement triggs and manos aura to catch huggy.

[Regelridderen]

Start with Henchman Hardcore.

It's quick games, shared objectives and both players have the same number of models.

It eliminates a ton of variables and allows players to just focus on getting the rules right and how to apply them.

Asking a new player to build a crew to achieve 1 strat and choose 2 schemes, while trying to counter their opponent and predicting what they will bring is just too much, let alone just remembering what his crew and the opposing one does.

Another thing is to play "open kimono", explain what and why you're doing certain things. Explain how your team plays, rather than just offer up their abilities – e.g. this cute teddy bear tears you're head off within 2", while this guy will just teleport around the board and place scheme markers to score my points, but if you hit him he'll explode in an instant. 

And then your opponent needs to accept that he is probably going to lose a lot.

[Shakyor]

Okay listen guys, he has played some guys we are past this. I am not really looking into input of whether we should do it this way or what other way some think we should be doing this instead. So we are not really interested in henchmen hardcore or such.

 

The open kimono thing is given regardless.