Lynch- why not so good?

[Assdex]

10 hours ago, Ogid said:

Because the other player is going to close the gap or the Lynch's player himself will put him near of enemies to make good use of his auras, and when that happens Stealth won't do much for him while having H2K will force most enemies to need 2 or 3 hits to kill him and the slightest healing will make again 2 hits needed to kill him (which is very expensive while affected by his auras). Also those Lures / damage will hit any of the other squishy models so those damage/lost position is going to happen anyway when defending those.

In general I'd lean to that upgrade on him unless the other crew consist mostly in long range/mid range abilities, but in that particular crew where H2K will prevent him to die and then discarding a card with Sun Quiang will heal tanen to 2 during the enemy activation if needed it's even better.

In my roster i got samurai with silent he stay near tanen tanen redirect he place in aura of sun 

[Adran]

14 hours ago, Assdex said:

Why not Stealth ? I don't understand how take the hit , spend card for it and take some dmg or lost position be better rather than Stealth whom senergy with all tanen aura , if u not zora or putina u come closer and stay in all auras

Stealth on Lynch is one of those tricky choices. I think in my ideal Lynch games, Stealth would never do anything because I want them inside the range anyway. But it sort of depends on how I expect things to go. I feel its a waste if I'm spending my AP bringing them inside my stealth bubble, but if it means they are havign to spend resources to get into my auras, then its not a bad choice. 

I like the two choices both bad option, but I do then worry if I'm going to be getting my stones worth. Its something that I would think was very much a meta choice, rather than something I would put on as a default. 

[Ogid]

10 hours ago, Assdex said:

In my roster i got samurai with silent he stay near tanen tanen redirect he place in aura of sun 

And that's why I don't like Stealth on him; in all that process Stealth is not helping him; if he is attacked and the Samurai is out of position, he is dead. But with SP on him, the Samurai can still take hits for him (with his own upgrade) but he can survive better alone or just near of Sun Quiang.

Stealth is better in models that like to keep its distance, but Tannen need to put himself in a range where Stealth is doing nothing to make good use of his kit.

But again, just my opinion, play whatever works for u!

[Assdex]

2 hours ago, Ogid said:

And that's why I don't like Stealth on him; in all that process Stealth is not helping him; if he is attacked and the Samurai is out of position, he is dead. But with SP on him, the Samurai can still take hits for him (with his own upgrade) but he can survive better alone or just near of Sun Quiang.

Stealth is better in models that like to keep its distance, but Tannen need to put himself in a range where Stealth is doing nothing to make good use of his kit.

But again, just my opinion, play whatever works for u!

Can u show u lynch crew ? I wanna see crew to improve my skills

[Ogid]

5 hours ago, Assdex said:

Can u show u lynch crew ? I wanna see crew to improve my skills

Your crew is ok imo; but I'd remove both Ninja upgrades and would move one SP from Gwyneth to Tannen, between master, totem and Gwyneth a 9SS cache isn't excessive. But that crew won't work in all situations tho.

However mind I play versus it, not with it; but TT is my second faction, so I might give you a few ideas:

My friend's core is Gwyneth, Tannen, 1-2 Beckoners and 1 Tanuki, that works well for him and is simmilar to your crew; there are still 20-25SS to round the crew and add defensive options. Those models can stack brillance fast and have a good mix of damage and utility.

He likes buffing Hungering Darkness and pressure weak spots with The looming Dark; between Incorporeal, being a Henchman and the bonus action can be thrown into a lot of things and expect to live and Focused make it dangerous; that buys him time to stack brillance for big damage and summons with Lynch.

A few extra ideas I'd consider with OOK/Versatiles to round a Lynch's crew:

• 1 Terracota: There aren't that many good tacticals to copy, but he can become Tannen for a 10
• Chiaki: Dispel magic to remove Focused with Slow built in to make the bubble even more opressive; good utility options and if she is killed, Lynch with his Reliquary will give double  to duels.
• Lust: Same idea than above, control Focused to protect your models relying on  to duels plus some utility.
• Kabuki Warrior: The Distraction aura is bonkers with all the Wp abilities in this crew (plus it'll make enemies affected by Tannen's Boring Conversation sitting ducks), he hits hard so it's not a bad obey target. Squishy versus non-mele attacks tho.
• Ama No Zako: Dark Bargain can let any model (including the master) use any action (including bonus actions); that alone gives a lot of options like activating Tannen's Boring Conversation early in the turn without losing Manipulative, draw extra cards with Gwyneth or invite everyone to another round with Jakob to name a few. She also hits hard and has good triggers so it's not a bad obey target herself for the Hungering. Her aura is also nuts, maybe a bit tricky to use to avoid damaging your own models. However She is a bit squishy, vulnerable to enemy obeys and needs kills to remove flicker tho.
• Minako + Ototo: That pair may summon 2 free schemers that may also remove conditions from models (so another way to control Focused); Ototo's AoE slow is a good control option but can also be used to alpha something and has H2K. This pair will go well with the Terracota that may copy Ototo's tactical.
• Effigy + EoF: Doubles down on Lynch's strong late game plus a concealment aura to help defending in turns 1 and 2. Hard to kill is good with Lynch's AoE healing.
• Lone Swordman: Brings both straight damage and control (through pass tokens/slow), H2K to benefice from Lynch's healing.

Consider also trying a cheesy gunline crew with some mix of Fuhatsu, Sidir, Samurais, Tanukis, plus some Honeypoth model (probably one of the Henchmans) and maybe 1 Lotus Eater. That has a horrible synergy with the master (it's synergistic with Hungering's obey tho) but might be useful versus crews vulnerable to guns that won't expect that coming from a Lynch leader pick.

About upgrades, considering the ability of the crew to groom the hand, consider Masked Agent in a Beckoner for getting a Coordinated Attack trigger in her long range actions. This may get even better paired with a Kabuki.

[Assdex]

On 11/27/2020 at 3:20 AM, Ogid said:

Your crew is ok imo; but I'd remove both Ninja upgrades and would move one SP from Gwyneth to Tannen, between master, totem and Gwyneth a 9SS cache isn't excessive. But that crew won't work in all situations tho.

However mind I play versus it, not with it; but TT is my second faction, so I might give you a few ideas:

My friend's core is Gwyneth, Tannen, 1-2 Beckoners and 1 Tanuki, that works well for him and is simmilar to your crew; there are still 20-25SS to round the crew and add defensive options. Those models can stack brillance fast and have a good mix of damage and utility.

He likes buffing Hungering Darkness and pressure weak spots with The looming Dark; between Incorporeal, being a Henchman and the bonus action can be thrown into a lot of things and expect to live and Focused make it dangerous; that buys him time to stack brillance for big damage and summons with Lynch.

A few extra ideas I'd consider with OOK/Versatiles to round a Lynch's crew:

• 1 Terracota: There aren't that many good tacticals to copy, but he can become Tannen for a 10
• Chiaki: Dispel magic to remove Focused with Slow built in to make the bubble even more opressive; good utility options and if she is killed, Lynch with his Reliquary will give double  to duels.
• Lust: Same idea than above, control Focused to protect your models relying on  to duels plus some utility.
• Kabuki Warrior: The Distraction aura is bonkers with all the Wp abilities in this crew (plus it'll make enemies affected by Tannen's Boring Conversation sitting ducks), he hits hard so it's not a bad obey target. Squishy versus non-mele attacks tho.
• Ama No Zako: Dark Bargain can let any model (including the master) use any action (including bonus actions); that alone gives a lot of options like activating Tannen's Boring Conversation early in the turn without losing Manipulative, draw extra cards with Gwyneth or invite everyone to another round with Jakob to name a few. She also hits hard and has good triggers so it's not a bad obey target herself for the Hungering. Her aura is also nuts, maybe a bit tricky to use to avoid damaging your own models. However She is a bit squishy, vulnerable to enemy obeys and needs kills to remove flicker tho.
• Minako + Ototo: That pair may summon 2 free schemers that may also remove conditions from models (so another way to control Focused); Ototo's AoE slow is a good control option but can also be used to alpha something and has H2K. This pair will go well with the Terracota that may copy Ototo's tactical.
• Effigy + EoF: Doubles down on Lynch's strong late game plus a concealment aura to help defending in turns 1 and 2. Hard to kill is good with Lynch's AoE healing.
• Lone Swordman: Brings both straight damage and control (through pass tokens/slow), H2K to benefice from Lynch's healing.

Consider also trying a cheesy gunline crew with some mix of Fuhatsu, Sidir, Samurais, Tanukis, plus some Honeypoth model (probably one of the Henchmans) and maybe 1 Lotus Eater. That has a horrible synergy with the master (it's synergistic with Hungering's obey tho) but might be useful versus crews vulnerable to guns that won't expect that coming from a Lynch leader pick.

About upgrades, considering the ability of the crew to groom the hand, consider Masked Agent in a Beckoner for getting a Coordinated Attack trigger in her long range actions. This may get even better paired with a Kabuki.

Tnx u mate. i tried almost all of option. lust look good on paper on table was not so good kabuki was great,really waiting for them.

[Assdex]

On 11/26/2020 at 12:16 PM, Adran said:

Stealth on Lynch is one of those tricky choices. I think in my ideal Lynch games, Stealth would never do anything because I want them inside the range anyway. But it sort of depends on how I expect things to go. I feel its a waste if I'm spending my AP bringing them inside my stealth bubble, but if it means they are havign to spend resources to get into my auras, then its not a bad choice. 

I like the two choices both bad option, but I do then worry if I'm going to be getting my stones worth. Its something that I would think was very much a meta choice, rather than something I would put on as a default. 

Mb cuz of meta with a lot of guns or range atack. but most of all i choose stealh to force emeny crew go inside aura cuse some strong crew use action with 8 range that not a lot but saved them from auras.

[Maogrim]

On 11/27/2020 at 1:20 AM, Ogid said:

Your crew is ok imo; but I'd remove both Ninja upgrades and would move one SP from Gwyneth to Tannen, between master, totem and Gwyneth a 9SS cache isn't excessive. But that crew won't work in all situations tho.

However mind I play versus it, not with it; but TT is my second faction, so I might give you a few ideas:

My friend's core is Gwyneth, Tannen, 1-2 Beckoners and 1 Tanuki, that works well for him and is simmilar to your crew; there are still 20-25SS to round the crew and add defensive options. Those models can stack brillance fast and have a good mix of damage and utility.

He likes buffing Hungering Darkness and pressure weak spots with The looming Dark; between Incorporeal, being a Henchman and the bonus action can be thrown into a lot of things and expect to live and Focused make it dangerous; that buys him time to stack brillance for big damage and summons with Lynch.

A few extra ideas I'd consider with OOK/Versatiles to round a Lynch's crew:

• 1 Terracota: There aren't that many good tacticals to copy, but he can become Tannen for a 10
• Chiaki: Dispel magic to remove Focused with Slow built in to make the bubble even more opressive; good utility options and if she is killed, Lynch with his Reliquary will give double  to duels.
• Lust: Same idea than above, control Focused to protect your models relying on  to duels plus some utility.
• Kabuki Warrior: The Distraction aura is bonkers with all the Wp abilities in this crew (plus it'll make enemies affected by Tannen's Boring Conversation sitting ducks), he hits hard so it's not a bad obey target. Squishy versus non-mele attacks tho.
• Ama No Zako: Dark Bargain can let any model (including the master) use any action (including bonus actions); that alone gives a lot of options like activating Tannen's Boring Conversation early in the turn without losing Manipulative, draw extra cards with Gwyneth or invite everyone to another round with Jakob to name a few. She also hits hard and has good triggers so it's not a bad obey target herself for the Hungering. Her aura is also nuts, maybe a bit tricky to use to avoid damaging your own models. However She is a bit squishy, vulnerable to enemy obeys and needs kills to remove flicker tho.
• Minako + Ototo: That pair may summon 2 free schemers that may also remove conditions from models (so another way to control Focused); Ototo's AoE slow is a good control option but can also be used to alpha something and has H2K. This pair will go well with the Terracota that may copy Ototo's tactical.
• Effigy + EoF: Doubles down on Lynch's strong late game plus a concealment aura to help defending in turns 1 and 2. Hard to kill is good with Lynch's AoE healing.
• Lone Swordman: Brings both straight damage and control (through pass tokens/slow), H2K to benefice from Lynch's healing.

Consider also trying a cheesy gunline crew with some mix of Fuhatsu, Sidir, Samurais, Tanukis, plus some Honeypoth model (probably one of the Henchmans) and maybe 1 Lotus Eater. That has a horrible synergy with the master (it's synergistic with Hungering's obey tho) but might be useful versus crews vulnerable to guns that won't expect that coming from a Lynch leader pick.

About upgrades, considering the ability of the crew to groom the hand, consider Masked Agent in a Beckoner for getting a Coordinated Attack trigger in her long range actions. This may get even better paired with a Kabuki.

Thank you for the detailed write-up

It's nice to see that there seems to be some synergy between Honeypot and Qi & Gong, since I'm planning to max out both keywords. Even if they're not that competitive. 

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Maogrim said:

Thank you for the detailed write-up

It's nice to see that there seems to be some synergy between Honeypot and Qi & Gong, since I'm planning to max out both keywords. Even if they're not that competitive. 

Glad to help!

Mind there are masters that even if they can't work as well as the top dogs in all situations are very good in some particular circunstances and knowing your faction OOK/Versatile picks helps to empower those (and it could also pick other players by surprise as they won't be as used to play against that). I've got not enough experience with those two to know where they will shine so I can only offer a few ideas; but experimenting is always fun, good luck!