Lynch- why not so good?

[Assdex]

I like honeypot and got some wins on tournament with him. But i saw he is rare master to pick. i think it cause Lynch himself need a lot of help to stay alive . 5df 5wp 4wk pseudo serena and 11wd not enouth. all my game i pick stels for him and some minion with take the hit.I agree he can stay alive but crew need a lot of stuff to do it.

Before someone say "i won with him easy u just not understand" . I wanna say about pickreit him. And one on mind cause honeypot is very hard to play crew, cause u must remember a lot of stuff like rules for aces.

 

Wanna read why u not play him and some mb trick for him. i will write some my list and tricks later.

[regleant]

I'll be honest, the only reason I don't play Lynch is because of the Brilliance tokens. I love the models, but I hate the "building up" concept where models and armies get stronger turn after turn. Also, the Brilliance tokens add more bookkeeping, and it's hard enough for me to keep track of the game without adding new concepts. Otherwise I love the models (and gambling) would play Lynch otherwise.

 

Similarly, I refuse to play Yan Lo for the same reasons: Too much accounting and slow-grow.

[Maogrim]

Interesting. I thought Lynch was considered to be one of the better masters in Ten Thunders, while of course below McCabe.

I have zero experience to contribute but on paper Honeypot seems to offer anything one would crave (see what I did there ) Lures, Obey, lots of movement tricks, reasonably priced melee models, some healing, an incorporeal scheme runner with pretty good movement...

Jakob himself reads a little vulnerable, but he probably doesn't need to be directly on the frontlines while still being able to hand out some brilliance, deliver the Hungering Darkness and maybe occasionally nuke something, combined with some second tier summoning.

[NoahScape]

Lynch was hot before GG0, and once he was figured out he never really came back from that. The problem with Lynch is a lack of a real damage threat, and little scheming ability/movement tricks. 

The more I play Malifaux the more I see movement tricks winning you games. Lynch is annoying to play against, but once you figure out the auras etc its not terribly difficult. 

 

[Assdex]

7 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Interesting. I thought Lynch was considered to be one of the better masters in Ten Thunders, while of course below McCabe.

I have zero experience to contribute but on paper Honeypot seems to offer anything one would crave (see what I did there ) Lures, Obey, lots of movement tricks, reasonably priced melee models, some healing, an incorporeal scheme runner with pretty good movement...

Jakob himself reads a little vulnerable, but he probably doesn't need to be directly on the frontlines while still being able to hand out some brilliance, deliver the Hungering Darkness and maybe occasionally nuke something, combined with some second tier summoning.

1st i don't sure that cabe the best. i saw him in europe meta but in our meta shenlong still better.

2 most of time lynch got problem from enemy shooting. he is great against melee crew. bring the swamp and opp crew just can't do anything . but still lynch got fear of simple duels. Pigapult it his nigthmare

[Plaag]

9 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Interesting. I thought Lynch was considered to be one of the better masters in Ten Thunders, while of course below McCabe.

I have zero experience to contribute but on paper Honeypot seems to offer anything one would crave (see what I did there ) Lures, Obey, lots of movement tricks, reasonably priced melee models, some healing, an incorporeal scheme runner with pretty good movement...

Jakob himself reads a little vulnerable, but he probably doesn't need to be directly on the frontlines while still being able to hand out some brilliance, deliver the Hungering Darkness and maybe occasionally nuke something, combined with some second tier summoning.

shen is top in tt, next misaki, asami; cabe is in the middle

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Plaag said:

shen is top in tt, next misaki, asami; cabe is in the middle

Other opinions can exist. (and not all meta play the same game, so it is impossible to really be completely definitive)

[Assdex]

And i think big problem of lynch is to save tannen. He is must have model but hard to save . Sometimes i think be better if some aura or boring conversation be on lynch or hench .

[santaclaws01]

Lynch is a just solid master in a faction of mostly top tier masters, so he gets heavily over shadowed despite being good. He could use a little love in some areas, Illuminated and Graves being meh, Lynch and Gwyneth needing to deal with friendly fire despite the rest of the crew being pretty melee focused. Overall he's where masters should be, he's got good pools and bad pools, good match ups and bad match ups.

[Adran]

35 minutes ago, Assdex said:

And i think big problem of lynch is to save tannen. He is must have model but hard to save . Sometimes i think be better if some aura or boring conversation be on lynch or hench .

 

21 hours ago, Assdex said:

I like honeypot and got some wins on tournament with him. But i saw he is rare master to pick. i think it cause Lynch himself need a lot of help to stay alive . 5df 5wp 4wk pseudo serena and 11wd not enouth. all my game i pick stels for him and some minion with take the hit.I agree he can stay alive but crew need a lot of stuff to do it.

Before someone say "i won with him easy u just not understand" . I wanna say about pickreit him. And one on mind cause honeypot is very hard to play crew, cause u must remember a lot of stuff like rules for aces.

 

Wanna read why u not play him and some mb trick for him. i will write some my list and tricks later.

I think that Lynch is fragile because he gets a free Huggy, and he almost has Serene countenance built in, making his wounds and DF not so bad. Yes, he doesn't really want to sit in the middle of a fight, but he isn't paper thin either. But most of his crews defences are based on Auras, which makes him a risky pick if you think your opponent has access to guns. 

I can agree that its a crew that needs you to focus on many things, and a good memory can be critical to playing them well as you look at so many cards and rig the deck so much. 

Likewise, Tanner is a really strong disruptive model, with the down side of his fragility. When he is used well he is crippling, but if you use him badly, he doesn't last long at all. 

My guess is that because he has some strong weaknesses, he is unlikely to be a "Solo master", and because of that people are much less likely to spend the time on developing their game with him. So he is hard to play well, and there will be times you are facing an uphill battle just because you picked him as a leader. This combination is not good if you want to consistently win events, but it can be fine if you want to occasionally win and occasionally lose. 

[Assdex]

4 hours ago, Adran said:

 

I think that Lynch is fragile because he gets a free Huggy, and he almost has Serene countenance built in, making his wounds and DF not so bad. Yes, he doesn't really want to sit in the middle of a fight, but he isn't paper thin either. But most of his crews defences are based on Auras, which makes him a risky pick if you think your opponent has access to guns. 

I can agree that its a crew that needs you to focus on many things, and a good memory can be critical to playing them well as you look at so many cards and rig the deck so much. 

Likewise, Tanner is a really strong disruptive model, with the down side of his fragility. When he is used well he is crippling, but if you use him badly, he doesn't last long at all. 

My guess is that because he has some strong weaknesses, he is unlikely to be a "Solo master", and because of that people are much less likely to spend the time on developing their game with him. So he is hard to play well, and there will be times you are facing an uphill battle just because you picked him as a leader. This combination is not good if you want to consistently win events, but it can be fine if you want to occasionally win and occasionally lose. 

Dreamer got free chompy and he more save than lynch.

Colette got serena and def trigger 

[Assdex]

4 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Lynch is a just solid master in a faction of mostly top tier masters, so he gets heavily over shadowed despite being good. He could use a little love in some areas, Illuminated and Graves being meh, Lynch and Gwyneth needing to deal with friendly fire despite the rest of the crew being pretty melee focused. Overall he's where masters should be, he's got good pools and bad pools, good match ups and bad match ups.

Disagree cuz he got a lit of weakness and problem . 

Like he very focused on play with keyword cause need brilliance.

And in keyword we got some problems

[Adran]

3 hours ago, Assdex said:

Dreamer got free chompy and he more save than lynch 

He does also only have 7 wounds, which is a lot less than 11.  (Both masters are cheaper than a standard master, with lynch cheaper than Dreamer even though he has more wounds). 

As a general rule, the Masters that come with a "big 'totem' for free as a leader" are more fragile. Its not completely true (Sandeep really breaks it as a concept), but Vik, Lynch, Dreamer are all in the "fragile section" of the Masters (I wouldn't put Kirai there but then she gets a big totem for free regardless). 

I'm not saying Lynch is more survivable than Dreamer per say, I'm just saying if you were trying to compare Lynch's survivabiltiy to most masters, you would expect it to be lower because he gets a better totem for free. (Not all masters are supposed to be equally survivable so just picking 2 and saying A is more survivable than B doesn't automatically make A better than B in the game.

Ediit

Lynch is one of only 2 masters that have as many wounds as their cost ( McCabe is the other and that's a bit iffy). That's not as noticeable if you hired him as a leader, but it's still something to consider

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Adran

[Assdex]

16 minutes ago, Adran said:

He does also only have 7 wounds, which is a lot less than 11.  (Both masters are cheaper than a standard master, with lynch cheaper than Dreamer even though he has more wounds). 

As a general rule, the Masters that come with a "big 'totem' for free as a leader" are more fragile. Its not completely true (Sandeep really breaks it as a concept), but Vik, Lynch, Dreamer are all in the "fragile section" of the Masters (I wouldn't put Kirai there but then she gets a big totem for free regardless). 

I'm not saying Lynch is more survivable than Dreamer per say, I'm just saying if you were trying to compare Lynch's survivabiltiy to most masters, you would expect it to be lower because he gets a better totem for free. (Not all masters are supposed to be equally survivable so just picking 2 and saying A is more survivable than B doesn't automatically make A better than B in the game.

I know. But lynch wanna be near enemy for auras.

And big problem lynch not got a big options . Like no moment trick on himsef.

But i agree he is can be good , not in our meta mb. 

And graves wiuth black blood and bodyguard too stupid

[Maogrim]

12 minutes ago, Assdex said:

I know. But lynch wanna be near enemy for auras.

And big problem lynch not got a big options . Like no moment trick on himsef.

But i agree he is can be good , not in our meta mb. 

And graves wiuth black blood and bodyguard too stupid

Maybe one could try an Illuminated with the Silent Protector Upgrade as a bodyguard?

Sure, that's a bit pricey, but it'd be a model with Hard to Kill, Regeneration, more self healing and Take the Hit.

[Assdex]

1 hour ago, Maogrim said:

Maybe one could try an Illuminated with the Silent Protector Upgrade as a bodyguard?

Sure, that's a bit pricey, but it'd be a model with Hard to Kill, Regeneration, more self healing and Take the Hit.

Yep . I played with it. I used a lot of combo to save him . But 2 big problem blast and pulses.

Sometimes good choice is boss +silent protector but its cost too much

[Cursed25]

3 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Maybe one could try an Illuminated with the Silent Protector Upgrade as a bodyguard?

Sure, that's a bit pricey, but it'd be a model with Hard to Kill, Regeneration, more self healing and Take the Hit.

Beckoner with silent protector or samurai with SP are way better protector/tank than an Illuminated! I've played lots of games with Lynch and these 2 are your best options to protect your key pieces (Lynch and Tannen!)

[Maogrim]

34 minutes ago, Cursed25 said:

Beckoner with silent protector or samurai with SP are way better protector/tank than an Illuminated! I've played lots of games with Lynch and these 2 are your best options to protect your key pieces (Lynch and Tannen!)

Samurai makes sense too because of Armor and the fact that he doesn't need to go up close to do damage, I guess. Would you maybe care to elaborate on what a Beckoner brings to the table as Silent Protector?

[Adran]

3 hours ago, Assdex said:

Yep . I played with it. I used a lot of combo to save him . But 2 big problem blast and pulses.

 

I know I'm just throwing your words back at you. But those problems are bigger problems for Colette and dreamer, mentioning the two you listed as better defensively. 

I'm not saying he is a tank, but he isn't bad for his cost. He does have keyword auras to improve his survivability when close, and you can potentially pay for more support because of the free huggy.

[Ogid]

2 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Would you maybe care to elaborate on what a Beckoner brings to the table as Silent Protector?

I've not played that particular combo, but it makes sense. Beckoners basically have Serene countenance in that crew so aren't bad redirect targets, for 5SS they bring a lot of utility, and with H2K they get a durability boost that is specially good considering the Master heals. A Focused machine or built in  will still destroy them even with that upgrade tho.

[Cursed25]

5 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Samurai makes sense too because of Armor and the fact that he doesn't need to go up close to do damage, I guess. Would you maybe care to elaborate on what a Beckoner brings to the table as Silent Protector?

She will help the mobility of Lynch or Tannen with one move and one lure! Also silent protector gives her chalenge bonus that can cripple the hand of your opponent or force him to target her which will be a lot of the time at a negative flip forcing more resources into killing a cheap HtK model! She's there to annoy your opponent while protectiing the model you really want! I've played her vs lots of aggresive crews (Nekima, Viks, Shenlong, ...) and it worked really well each time! She will die for sure but the wasted actions on there beaters makes it worth it in my opinion!

[Assdex]

5 hours ago, Adran said:

I know I'm just throwing your words back at you. But those problems are bigger problems for Colette and dreamer, mentioning the two you listed as better defensively. 

I'm not saying he is a tank, but he isn't bad for his cost. He does have keyword auras to improve his survivability when close, and you can potentially pay for more support because of the free huggy.

How this problem bigger for Colette, if she bury most of the time ? Or dreamer who got incorp and protected ? If u stay correct u got 0 dmg from blast

[Assdex]

About samurai and beconer with silent protector. I agree its good but its depending who is ur opp. If enemy crew got lure or obey etc they just lure bodyguard then kill target, so because of this I played boss sometime, and with boss u can take atack with blast and 1 blast not do damage on lynch .

Anyway u can't save it for 100/100. Some crew like shenlong sonnya just wipe it with shooting.my nightmare game was against Seamus.

And one of my personal tech is samurai with protector+sun

[Assdex]

This is my favourite lynch crew

[Assdex]

Wanna see ur lynch crew