Hayreddin leader, viable?

[Ogid]

I've been thinking about Hayreddin instead of Nekima for some Nephillims lists.

From a damage point of view Nekima have the upper hand, her damage track is very solid (3/5/6), have a higher stat (7) and the combo Frenzied Charge with Inhuman Reflexes is very very good. Hayreddin have some good damage potential, but it needs stonning for Necrotic Decay (2/3/4 -> 3/4/5 or 4/5/6 +1 from Black Blood) and suffering 1 or 2 damage in the process (1 damage is the optimum).

However Hayreddin brings some interesting possibilities to a crew: Barbaros would be a legal hire; both Barbaros and Hayreddin have only Sz 2, so they could be carried into carnage range in turn 1 in the more agressive lists; with 3 actions and Barbaros/Lilitu help, he can bleed out a Nephillim for a lot of ping damage and tot summoning capabilities.

Barbaros is a great hire, he is the only (smart) Nephillim with armor, have a built in "Shove Aside" trigger and "Bring it"; being quite good to stack enemy models and with good damage potential (charge, trigger, push, attack, bring it for 3 enemy models in Black blood range). After some enemies have been stacked (with Barbaros/Matures Shove Aside or Lures), Hayreddin have a Swift Action trigger in "Black Blood Pustule"; it may deal up to 6 damage in a turn with it; which will lead to a few tots summoned and a lot of damage potential versus heavy armored crews.

In the most agressive lists he can be carried, so he can reach the enemies with more actions than Nekima.

Plus an Emissary in turn 3 for only 2 SS.

I'm not 100% sold with this idea tho. Anyone has tried it?

[Hawkoon]

I'd probably just use Barbaros as a leader instead, putting you in Outcasts at the same time with access to hodgepodge effisary with nephilim.

[Ogid]

I got the idea from there. Outcast using Barbaros as a leader to bring a suprise Nephilim attack strategy to that faction; in this thread there is a interesing discussion about him:

However I was more interested in discussing how viable Hayreddin is as a leader in NVB; if you declare NVB as your faction you cannot pick him as a leader. Picking Hayreddin as a leader you are sifting raw power away from the leader spot in favor of a quicker rush, an emissary reinforcement in turn 3, more BB indirect damage potential (both his own black pustule and an armored Nephilim) and more Tot summoning potential.

I think it's an idea worth to being explored, but just theorifaux at this point.

[Kharnage]

19 hours ago, Ogid said:

he is the only (smart) Nephillim with armor

Rude 
I just feel like what Barbaros brings to the table isn't enough to justify not having Teach Them Fear and Enraged by Insolence on the table. His Bring It! is stat 5, which I'm not in love with, and historical data tells me that armor 1 just does not make a model as tanky as Combat Finesse does in a proper scrap. I've thought of having Hayreddin as leader, but his pay-for-it-with-health mechanics means that he wants Teach Them Fear to recoup the damage he deals to himself, and also 3 AP could mean that he's dealing even more damage to himself to have a damage-spikey turn, while not having Teach Them Fear. 
Which is not to say don't try it for the fun and memes...
But Barbaros wears armor and that's weird so I'm not about it. Even the half bloods know better than that. 

[Ogid]

2 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

Rude 
But Barbaros wears armor and that's weird so I'm not about it. Even the half bloods know better than that. 

I seriously think the Nephilims have poor decision making...  I mean, you growth eating corpses and are struggling to expulse the intruders, then one of your kind decide to study Necromancy to gain an edge... well, let's just beat him, kill all his shamans and let him sit alone in the dark for the eternity 👌.

And another one survives years of fights in the pits thanks to armor and will alone; Maybe that armor is something useful? No, let's just bully him for being ugly.

Also your blood is freaking acid! Just bleed out some tots and make a cool blood-spitter or something like that...  Even the goblins learned to build a catapult to throw pigs with dynamite! No tottapult/doggapult Nekima? Seriously?

I guess when you are a mega cool demon, you only need that badasery and a loincloth...

[Sybaris]

Well they kind of do make use of their blood with "Fly with me" trigger...tots splattering to the floor ...not a catapult per say but...dropping tot bombs is in their book.

Problem with armor is probably their growth rate...by the time they finished hammering the thing, they'll be too large...IIRC barbaros would never mature. Otherwise they probably find people weak if they need it...not saying they are wise at all.

As far as leading with Hayreddin.... He'd probably like to get a duo of Shaman to heal up and lilitus for sneaky support. Then lelus and a young for fighting? 

[Ogid]

3 hours ago, Sybaris said:

Well they kind of do make use of their blood with "Fly with me" trigger...tots splattering to the floor ...not a catapult per say but...dropping tot bombs is in their book.

Problem with armor is probably their growth rate...by the time they finished hammering the thing, they'll be too large...IIRC barbaros would never mature. Otherwise they probably find people weak if they need it...not saying they are wise at all.

Nah, they are way overconfident... like if "survival of the fittest" doesn't apply to them. 

3 hours ago, Sybaris said:

As far as leading with Hayreddin.... He'd probably like to get a duo of Shaman to heal up and lilitus for sneaky support. Then lelus and a young for fighting? 

I have some things in mind for him... a hyperagressive list with Barbaros matures and youngs just going for the throat and other list more focused in the growth mechanics with the effigy upgrade; in these probably will grow shamans to matures and tots to shamans. Not sure how well that'd work tho XD