Hot Take on Ol' Z

[Tors]

Aggressive Double Master List

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 hours ago, Mut said:

So now that this debate has raged, I'd be interested to see people's response to this question: Given you're facing Bayou Zoraida in a 50 SS game, what master do you run, and what's your crew look like? Assume Cursed Idols is the strat.

Assuming I could borrow models, I'd take a double master list (probably Zoraida into Dreamer crew).

Otherwise with the models I own, maybe...

• Molly + totem
• Philip and the Nanny (if schemes were good)
• Archie (with GST)
• 2-3 crooligans (usually one with GST, not sure against Zoraida)
• 2 rabble risers
• Some flex slots.

The only really good obey target would be Archie, and since he uses his leap to be maneuverable, she couldn't actually maneuver him that well. I'd probably set him to going and smashing her face in (so then there is pressure on her, and if she obeys him, he is not close enough to my models to attack them). Or I'd set him against enemy scheme runners (again, too far from my models to hit them).

Everything else in the crew is too weak to be worth obeying, except Philip and the Nanny (who has manipulative and a great willpower. Going to take tons of work to get obey off on them).

The crooligans don't have to go near corrupted idols until they teleport, making it harder to get them to move the idol unfavourably. They also only have five health, so if I spend three of it moving an idol, she can't spend more than two moving it (and thus, it is still on her side).

Note this would literally be my first time playing against her, so the list would be refined over time.

[Maniacal_cackle]

But her models are pretty squishy. All of them could conceivably be killed by Archie in one activation, and a lot of them could be killed in one activation without much difficulty.

And since my crew is already really good at spreading out over the whole board, I'd be happy to spread them out so they couldn't attack each other (noting of course that this makes rabble risers weaker and I'd skip taking them, except I don't own enough models to skip them entirely I think xD)

[Sharp_GT]

13 hours ago, Mut said:

So now that this debate has raged, I'd be interested to see people's response to this question: Given you're facing Bayou Zoraida in a 50 SS game, what master do you run, and what's your crew look like? Assume Cursed Idols is the strat.

I think there's a lot of fair picks, ranging from the strategy of "going wide" ala dreamer, kirai, mah tucket, or going for mobile and ranged crews that don't care about most of the zoraida crew's defenses ala parker, perdita, mcabe, or most of ten thunders for that matter.

Listen to this tournament report, starting at about 40min they discuss zoraida. The overall opinion is that z is not OP and one of the guests beat her quite handily in the tournament.

https://anchor.fm/thirdfloorwars/episodes/Path-to-Podium-NOVA-2019-Round-Table---Episode-40-e5dqbu

edit: I forgot that another guest abosultely slaughtered a NB crew that had z as a second master

[Maniacal_cackle]

Interesting, one of them takes the position that she's broken and banned locally. The other says she is only broken as a double master xD

[Ogid]

On 9/23/2019 at 3:34 PM, Mut said:

So now that this debate has raged, I'd be interested to see people's response to this question: Given you're facing Bayou Zoraida in a 50 SS game, what master do you run, and what's your crew look like? Assume Cursed Idols is the strat.

I like that suggestion.

Without knowing the map and the strategies is hard to decide, and I'm not that into bayou to know their tricks well and what to expect, but assuming I picked Dreamer and found a Zoraida pick I'd consider the following when building my crew:

• For idols healing is handy, so Bokors and Bad Juju will probably be in the other crew.
• Her models have a lot of stealth and butterfly jump, so i'll need to be prepared to deal with these
• Her perks, states, obey, hand mulligan and regret needs to be in mind while building the crew.

Models:

• I want a higher model count to don't give away free focused if the Bokors are choosen; so I'd probably take 3 Daydreams with 1 or 2 pack upgrades to get the initiative advantage and get the idols where I want; this also will help me to reposition my models if Zoraida use the obeys to make them run away from the idols. And the daydream may bite back with his attack if something get too close, his attatck isn't bad for a 3 points model
• Models like LCB, Serena or the Carver have both a good mele attack and a ranged spell/projectile attack, making them very good versus models with buterfly jump, wisps (the distracted aura) and versus Zoraida itself (avoid regret or using ranged ability + charge her). Carver will also wreck any Silurid that gets too close as he can use his misery aura to move him again into engagement range (this requires him to reach base to base in the charge tho) and can be also an answer to the enemy focused condition.
• Sticheds are a great choice for this game because Gamble your Life have the "enemy only" limitation and as a tactical action will get over Butterfly jump, regret, obey and the distracted condition... so best minion for the match up.
• Serena can attack through other models (avoiding clumpling the models, making it harder for Zoraida obey one to attack others), has disguised and the Heal + Eternal is very handy in Idols.
• Spiders (Bander and WW) are a very good choice, putting webs around where I want the idols to drop I may put them in contact with the idols without letting Zoraida take advantage of my models being near of them. Bandersnatch is also an amazing Silurid hunter thanks to Crawl into Shadow. WW may hunt the weakest enemy models and use the stuffing to create Stiched and dolls.
• Puppets are another very good choice for this game, the wicked dolls have stealth and 3 HP, making them harder to obey and a good cannon folder model to sacrifice moving the idols (and the scrap after die may be used by Vasilisa or WW to create more Dolls/Stiched). Vasilisa can heal constructs (Herself, Teddy, Hinamatsu or Stiched) and reposition the dolls. McTravis can mesh with this, but I'm not sure if he is that good pick for this strat and he will have to get close to remove the scrap.
• Hinamatsu have a huge charge range and her onslaught trigger+Flurry will make short work of Bad Juju (lots of attacks versus his low defense+h2w). She may be also useful versus Silurid as Onslaught trigger before butterfly jump (and she has Lure+rip and tear in case the silurid survive)... her only problem is the long charge range can also be used versus the Dreamer's crew if she gets obeyed, so she is best going on her own or paired with Disguised models (Serena or a Doppleganger).
• Teddy is another good option to pit versus Juju, and he has regeneration and consume; I maybe like more Hinamatsu in this match up, but both could work quite well.
• Tuco maybe could work well with Stealth, Bravado and from the shadows in case I needed more stealth.
• A Doppleganger can also be a good pick, it has a lot of defensive tech, can copy useful abilities and have a Lure to help important models being moved back
• A support model with Eldritch Magic could be considered to counter the conditions of her crew... but I think that wouldn't be necessary if the match up is played well.

I guess i'll try to stop her runners and her nodes with the tools above mentioned and use them in my benefice (stuffing tokens), I'll only get near of idols with models she cannot take advantage of (quick spiders placement or stealthed models); and unless she try to be very agressive with her positioning I'll focus in schemes and strategies instead of pressuring her; I will deny her control by focusing her weaker models. I'll try to activate Dreamer early (if it's safe) to be able to use a high card to summon something before my hand get discarted (and time the daydream(s) activation with the nepharious pact to take the best advantage possible of that).

Bad Juju will have to be watched carefuly because with his regeneration he can do a ton of work with the strategy. If I include models able to kill him (like Hinamatsu), he will be focused down as soon as he step further; in other case (if he is being a problem) I'll control him with 2 minions (Insidious to give distracted bypassing his Wp7) + 1 alph (for the aura and slow trigger). With his low df3 he is a very very easy kidnap target for WW, which may be used to both displace him to focus him down or to bring him back if he try to run away to be healed.

The first mate is a pain in the ass (as always), but the crew have tools to deal with him if he decides to show up. The biggest and most important detail would be never, ever charging him unless I'm sure that hit will kill him (and he is a henchman, so Zoraida's cache would be a factor here). A First mate with fast is scary; gamble or twist reality are great tools to deal with him bypassing his defenses if he gets too close; another option is making him move into mele range (with the misery aura or a short range lure) or using mele attacks at distance with serena if he is engaging other model. If carver can stun him, that will go a looong way to control him (both reducing his mele damage and limiting his mobility)

I don't think I'd pick a double master or would go that much OOK (apart from Puppets and some Versatiles that works wonder with him) after picking Dreamer; but if I considered them, I'd probably choose Titania or Nekima depending on the schemes. Nekima with frenzied charge (+Inhuman) will be great to hunt most of her models, but she is mele and regret will stop her cold; however Titania best attack is an spell that deals good damage, injure and can even displace Zoraida with a trigger (and she can put some concealing terrain), so I'd probably favor her. With Nekima I'd probably also include a Shaman to give her free focus and grow it him into a mature in turn 1, with Titania Gorar is hard to pass and I'd consider maybe Aeslin or a Changeling... I'd have to check each case.

I lean towards a spider and/or puppet heavy crew, but I've not played versus her and I don't have that much experience with the game yet, I'll need to adjust the list and the playstyle over time (and even with a well thought list and a plan, I'm sure that a better player will still outplay me lol). But It looks like a very tactical and fun match up with all those little tricks she have.

Hope it helps!