M3e Power Level?

[Math Mathonwy]

At first I thought that the "power level" of models in M3e was lower than in 2e. Damage tracks have been toned down in general, access to extra AP is limited, there's no Paralyze anymore, additional Actions from Triggers can't declare Triggers, Red Joker damage is only Severe +1, Gremlins don't double their damage anymore, and so on.

But now that I've played 3e a bit my feeling is that the truly powerful stuff in 3e is actually way more powerful than they ever were in 2e. Many of the profiles are simply upgrades in that if you could have the 3e profile card in a 2e game, you'd choose it in a heartbeat. And then the synergies inside some crews are also on a wholly another level.

And the balance seems also to be very random. I think I've had two or three close games of M3e and the rest have been very lopsided. Granted, the VP difference hasn't been that huge but it has been very, very clear who is going to win somewhere during turn two at the latest. Now I realize that things are affect by the fact that people are still getting to grips with the new profiles and the new system and the S&S and so on and M2e certainly had its share of blowouts to say the least but still.

There seems to be a lot of "Oh, you have Armor +2 on most of you force - I guess that my sole Analyze Weakness thingy that I own (or even that my Faction provides) is going to be the deciding factor in this game. (Also, they cleaned up the Conditions but then left us with these weird pseudo-conditions like what Analyze Weakness or Poisoned Fate gives you - seem like a very strange design choice).

OK, that got a bit rambly. And don't take the musings on balance issues as all that significant as I still have quite little experience with M3e (haven't even seen half of the Masters on the table yet). But I was most interested in how others feel about the power level of M3e when compared to 2e. And I realize that power level in itself is an ambiguous concept but try to cope.

[marke83]

I don't know. My gut feeling, in comparison to 2E, is that currently doing combat is simply not as valuable. Some people rant about killy models/crews in discord, but I don't think those are that problematic. Many games feel very unfair or lopsided, but the scores are often close when both players know what they're doing and are actively looking to score, as you kinda said already.

[mythicFOX]

I don't think it's over useful to directly compare power levels between the two editions, if it's even possible.

What probably matters more is the game balance, so is M3e more balanced than M2e?  Right now my feeling is yes, but it's still way too early to know.

Games seem to be closer scoring, probably because the change to scoring mechanics reduces the number of VPs in contention.  I'd argue the primary driver in the average VP difference is still relative player skill.

All IMHO.

[4thstringer]

On 8/26/2019 at 7:00 AM, Math Mathonwy said:

At first I thought that the "power level" of models in M3e was lower than in 2e. Damage tracks have been toned down in general, access to extra AP is limited, there's no Paralyze anymore, additional Actions from Triggers can't declare Triggers, Red Joker damage is only Severe +1, Gremlins don't double their damage anymore, and so on.

But now that I've played 3e a bit my feeling is that the truly powerful stuff in 3e is actually way more powerful than they ever were in 2e. Many of the profiles are simply upgrades in that if you could have the 3e profile card in a 2e game, you'd choose it in a heartbeat. And then the synergies inside some crews are also on a wholly another level.

And the balance seems also to be very random. I think I've had two or three close games of M3e and the rest have been very lopsided. Granted, the VP difference hasn't been that huge but it has been very, very clear who is going to win somewhere during turn two at the latest. Now I realize that things are affect by the fact that people are still getting to grips with the new profiles and the new system and the S&S and so on and M2e certainly had its share of blowouts to say the least but still.

There seems to be a lot of "Oh, you have Armor +2 on most of you force - I guess that my sole Analyze Weakness thingy that I own (or even that my Faction provides) is going to be the deciding factor in this game. (Also, they cleaned up the Conditions but then left us with these weird pseudo-conditions like what Analyze Weakness or Poisoned Fate gives you - seem like a very strange design choice).

OK, that got a bit rambly. And don't take the musings on balance issues as all that significant as I still have quite little experience with M3e (haven't even seen half of the Masters on the table yet). But I was most interested in how others feel about the power level of M3e when compared to 2e. And I realize that power level in itself is an ambiguous concept but try to cope.

Maybe its because I'm playing guild, but my stuff feels significantly weaker.  We were pretty dependent on our higher damage tracks, and our built in crit strikes, and that has been taken away from us.  Our primary buffs (papa and Frank) no longer have any kind of effect.

I do agree about the games feeling very lopsided, even when the scores are closer.  

I think faction to faction it will be closer (once all the factions actually have their models).  

I agree completely about the conditions and pseudo conditions.

The real thing I have seen complicating more is I have seen more auras with contingent abilities.  So many auras mean there are lots of opportunities to forget those abilities when they would proc.