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KingCrow

Same ability occurring at the same time

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Gluttony has an ability called "A Rhythm to Those Who Hunger" that applies the condition "Mad with Hunger: Whenever a Scheme Marker is placed withing 6" and LoS of this model, push this model into base contact with the Marker, then discard it and this models suffers 2 damage..."

If this condition is applied to two or more models and a scheme marker is placed within range of all of them, how do you resolve the condition? Do both models push into base contact with the Marker at the same time or does only one model push and discard meaning the other model no longer has to push? If it's the second choice, which player decides who pushes which model?

Also, what if a model is blocked from pushing all the way into base contact (such as by another model being in the way or hitting terrain)? Does it not suffer the damage because it didn't touch the marker? 

Thanks!

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2 hours ago, KingCrow said:

Gluttony has an ability called "A Rhythm to Those Who Hunger" that applies the condition "Mad with Hunger: Whenever a Scheme Marker is placed withing 6" and LoS of this model, push this model into base contact with the Marker, then discard it and this models suffers 2 damage..."

If this condition is applied to two or more models and a scheme marker is placed within range of all of them, how do you resolve the condition? Do both models push into base contact with the Marker at the same time or does only one model push and discard meaning the other model no longer has to push? If it's the second choice, which player decides who pushes which model?

You don't partially resolve one effect, then partially resolve the other effect, then resolve the other effect some more unless the effect says to do it that way.  The sequence in which the models will resolve their conditions is specified in General Timing:

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1.  The Acting Model resolves its Abilities.

2.  The Defending Model (if there is one) resolves its Abilities.

3. Any other models controlled by the First Player resolves all of their Ability effects in any order the First Player chooses.

4. Any other models controlled by the Second Player resolves all of their Ability effects in any order the Second Player chooses. 

The text in the rules says Abilities, you can set your models on fire if you think it doesn't also apply to Conditions.  :mellow:

 

I include the first two steps in case you have a model with Mad With Hunger activate and perform an action that places the marker.  Or you could end up with some strange attack that places a marker.

Either way, First Player and Second Player are the order determined by initiative for that turn.

Quote

Also, what if a model is blocked from pushing all the way into base contact (such as by another model being in the way or hitting terrain)? Does it not suffer the damage because it didn't touch the marker? 

Thanks!

The effect in question does not specify that the damage is conditional on reaching base contact.  So the damage happens regardless of how far (or even whether) the model is pushed, or where it ends up.

Edit:  It's actually a fair amount of wording to make one part of an effect conditional on another part of an effect succeeding.  Words like "then" are normally just indicating the order in which things happen, whether those things succeed or not.

That means that the first model to resolve will get pushed and suffer damage, and the rest just suffer damage.

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@solkan  So if I'm understanding this properly, the controller of the model with the "Mad with Hunger" condition would choose which model (out of the multiple models with the condition) that he wanted to push towards the Scheme Marker?  Then, even if the model(s) do not end in base contact with the Marker, all of them would suffer the damage? Including the model(s) that did not push?

In the cases of abilities that contain the word "then", I thought that all of the first part of an ability (in this case, the push/push into base contact with the Marker) had to be performed so that the other half of the ability (the discarding of the Marker and the damage) could occur.  Please correct me if I'm wrong and/or misunderstanding. :)

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22 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

@solkan  So if I'm understanding this properly, the controller of the model with the "Mad with Hunger" condition would choose which model (out of the multiple models with the condition) that he wanted to push towards the Scheme Marker?  Then, even if the model(s) do not end in base contact with the Marker, all of them would suffer the damage? Including the model(s) that did not push?

Imagine for a moment that both players have hired Sloth, so there are multiple models on both crews with "Mad with Hunger" Condition, and someone places a marker.  You go down the General Timing list:

  • Does the acting model have Mad with Hunger?  If it does, then it resolves it now.
  • Is there a defending model, and does it have Mad with Hunger?
  • Does the First Player have any remaining models with Mad with Hunger?  If so, then resolve the Condition on those models one at a time until done.
  • Does the Second Player have any remaining models with Mad with Hunger?  If so, then resolve the Condition on those models one at a time until done.

For simplicity, I'm assuming that the only effect triggered was the Mad with Hunger Condition.  You resolve Mad with Hunger completely on a model before continuing to the next model--the first model pushes, removes the marker and suffers damage.  Then the next model pushes (the push fails because it's impossible), discards the marker (which fails) and then suffers damage.  Then the next model does likewise.

22 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

In the cases of abilities that contain the word "then", I thought that all of the first part of an ability (in this case, the push/push into base contact with the Marker) had to be performed so that the other half of the ability (the discarding of the Marker and the damage) could occur.  Please correct me if I'm wrong and/or misunderstanding. :)

Please explain where you came up with that bizarre idea of what the word "then" means.

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@solkan Ah, I understand now.  If multiple enemy models have the condition on them, the opposing player (who has the condition on both of his models) would choose which model to push toward the scheme marker and it would effect all of his other models due to the scheme marker being discarded.  You fully resolve one model's condition before another model's condition can begin.  It's apparently worth it to place this on multiple models.

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On 1/25/2018 at 4:55 AM, solkan said:

Please explain where you came up with that bizarre idea of what the word "then" means.

English.

'One thing happens then another' would normally mean that the second thing doesn't happen if the first doesn't. 

I had the same question,  and frankly passive aggressive little digs like this don't help anyone. People ask for help because they need it, so please stick to the help and lay off the snide comments.

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<modhat>

Thread closed for necro. 

I don’t hold with this ressuresctionist tomfoolery.

</modhat>

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