Wave 5 - How does it redefine our meta?

[4thstringer]

So, I saw this in another faction's forum, and I started to wonder about it for guild.

How does Wave 5 change our meta?  

Is Nellie maybe not the best answer for everything anymore?

Are there models that flat aren't going to be taken?

Did we improve at something we were bad at?

[Legislat]

Imho.

Nellie is still the queen of guild, even without new upgrades.

But. Other masters will see more play. 

All new minions are top tier.

Jury will probably be stapled to some masters. Domadores are quite nice. 

Guild has a major advantage now. One it never had before. Unpredictability. And it will matter a lot.

[doubledragon]

Nellie is most likely still top of the Guild, with McMourning now coming in at a close 2nd. I think McMourning with his new hiring pool will be able to more than competently take on any combination of strat and schemes. I think he'll see a lot more table time now for players who want to be competitive, but don't want to just play Nellie every game. Lady J will also see a lot more table time now with her new upgrades and I think there will be a select few combinations of strats and schemes where she will be the better choice over Nellie and McMourning.

Jury will most likely be in every good Lady J / Perdita crew, alongside Franc.

Upgrades: Sword fighter will be stapled to Lady J and I think Fastest Draw will be attached to Perdita most times with Trick Shooting. McCabe's Loot bag is nice, but will most times probably just serve as to making Glowing Sabre 1 ss cheaper.

I think we got a great selection of new minions.

To echo @Legislat, we now have options. Good options. Options that allow us to mix things up and take our opponents by surprise. At least for now, until people have figured out the best new combinations of things.

[PanzerHarris]

Speaking personally, I'm glad to see buffs spread liberally across the faction. Hoffman is now much improved at the hold ground role I used him for anyway. Justice is much more flexible when it comes to where she applies her violence. Lucius and his deep pockets and Dim Bulb are great. McMourning allows me to throw Sabretooth Cerberuses back at Arcanists. And so on.

I've said many times that I still don't agree that Nellie is the be all and end all. She's 'Guild lite' - you can get a taste of our best models without having to adapt to the playstyle. For me she's just a tool in the box. But it's a tool that I might use a bit more given the fact that she can now rewrite schemes, so if a gamble doesn't pay off you're not up a certain creek without a certain implement.

[doubledragon]

I think Nellie's ability to rewrite schemes now is a bit... silly.

In my opinion, it feels like playing Malifaux on easy mode. The amount of times I've played a game and regretted my scheme choices by turn 2/3 and wishing I had chosen another set... more than I'd like to admit. With that upgrade now, I can see many situations where there will be scheme pools that require a similar crew selection, and by turn 2/3, if your opponent is thwarting your original plan, instead of thinking how to better him/her, you can just switch gears and choose another scheme that'll be easier to achieve in that particular game.
Or, times when "Oh, this crew isn't doing as well at this scheme as I thought it would, but hey, I know they're good at this one (that's in the pool), I'll just just switch out to that quickly."

[4thstringer]

7 minutes ago, doubledragon said:

I think Nellie's ability to rewrite schemes now is a bit... silly.

In my opinion, it feels like playing Malifaux on easy mode. The amount of times I've played a game and regretted my scheme choices by turn 2/3 and wishing I had chosen another set... more than I'd like to admit. With that upgrade now, I can see many situations where there will be scheme pools that require a similar crew selection, and by turn 2/3, if your opponent is thwarting your original plan, instead of thinking how to better him/her, you can just switch gears and choose another scheme that'll be easier to achieve in that particular game.
Or, times when "Oh, this crew isn't doing as well at this scheme as I thought it would, but hey, I know they're good at this one (that's in the pool), I'll just just switch out to that quickly."

Nellie's scheme is balanced more by the fact that she was already crowded for upgrades.  Sure it is good, but who is dropping anything but Embedded for it, at which point you are losing some of the best models to use with her.

I do agree with Panzer, that she is barely playing Guild (I feel the same way about beast/academic McM.) You barely use any guild models in those lists.  You are guild basically just for Debt.

[Myyrä]

27 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Nellie's scheme is balanced more by the fact that she was already crowded for upgrades.  Sure it is good, but who is dropping anything but Embedded for it, at which point you are losing some of the best models to use with her.

I do agree with Panzer, that she is barely playing Guild (I feel the same way about beast/academic McM.) You barely use any guild models in those lists.  You are guild basically just for Debt.

I don't know if dropping Embedded hurts her that much. She can still hire mercenaries, just not as many.