Self Loathing vs McMourning.

[Dealer]

Pandora hits McMourning with self-loathing and chooses McMourning's Surgical Implements action. Self-loathing reads "Apply the printed damage results (flip i understand) of the chosen Action to the target. No other triggers or effects from the chosen action are applied."

Would McMourning's Hard to Wound and Organ Donor work? I'd say yes as they are kinda built-in and not effects of the Surgical Implements action, but is there already any known ruling about this?

[hippodruid]

More specifically, Hard to Wound affects Damage Flips made against McMourning, so it would still modify Pandora's flip after succeeding.  Organ Donor only happens when McMourning deals damage, which as Fireuser points out, he is not.

[Artiee]

3 hours ago, Fireuser said:

Absolutely not.  Pandora is dealing the damage.  McMourning is not dealing the damage to himself.

Pandora's abilities and conditions that would modify the attack or damage would be applied.  McMourning's abilities and conditions would not, including the abilities on the front of his card, and any other effects such as the damage boost that a nurse could give him.

There are 2 parts to the question.

 

3 hours ago, Dealer said:

Would McMourning's Hard to Wound and Organ Donor work? 

As hippodruid posted.  The Hard to Wound would work since it is a damage flip against it.   But since its Pandora doing the damage, Organ Donor will not work.

[Fireuser]

Absolutely not.  Pandora is dealing the damage.  McMourning is not dealing the damage to himself.

Pandora's abilities and conditions that would modify the attack or damage would be applied.  McMourning's abilities and conditions would not, including the abilities on the front of his card, and any other effects such as the damage boost that a nurse could give him.

[Dealer]

Ok about organ donor. I see your point. But I dont see why Hard to Wound would not apply. Even if it's Pandora dealing the damage, it's a normal damage flip even with accuracy modifiers, etc.

[Dealer]

Thanks hippo!

[Fetid Strumpet]

A better way to think about it is that when pandora copies a weapon via her attack actions, ALL she gets is the damage track and nothing else. 
No triggers, no special abilities, no limitations. While Seamus can't fire his gun more than once per turn, Pandora can hit him multiple times per turn with her ranged attack doing 4/6/8 each time. She doesn't copy the limitation. She also doesn't copy the + to dmg flips on Lady J or Lilith's great swords. All she gets is the damage track.

[Fireuser]

9 hours ago, Dealer said:

Ok about organ donor. I see your point. But I dont see why Hard to Wound would not apply. Even if it's Pandora dealing the damage, it's a normal damage flip even with accuracy modifiers, etc.

When McMourning makes a damage flip, he ignores Hard to Wound and Armor.  Self Loathing does not make McMourning make a damage flip against himself, it makes Pandora do a damage flip that copies the target's stat line. 

Edit - apologies, I thought you were asking about his Precision ability to Ignore Hard to Wound, not his personal Hard to Wound.  He does get his Hard to Wound against Pandora, as nothing let's her ignore it.