First Time Fatemaster, looking for tips and things of which to be aware

[Paneki21]

Greetings one and all!

I am a first time fatemaster, well secluded from any Wyrd games in our area. This would be our first whack and attempt at anything from the Malifaux world. I may have several question along the way, but the first of which arrives today during the second character creation for our upcoming adventures. Before I get to that, if any players or Fatemasters have any tips or "Hey, keep a look out on this...."/"Keep this in mind when..." (i.e. common things that are overlooked in starters), they would be much appreciated. I had gotten all 4 of the base books at once, so it's possible I may have overlooked something in reading, as it all kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. I am excited however to get rolling with this game.

Continuing with the question. So we did end up running on free RPG day at our local brick and mortar, and we did get a feel for the game. Spellcasting however proved to be kind of iffy with the starter character. I got the impression that it's tough to pull off magic consistently. THEN, I come across this Talent "specialized skill" which allows you to pick a suit to have added to a prenamed skill for duel. What i'm just checking I guess is that, are attacks considered duels for these skill checks? the situation is my girlfriend has chosen a Mage, and picked a relatively easy spell as her Manifested Power, with a TN of 12, and her Sorcery at a 6 right off the bat (needing only a 6 from what i'm gathering, odds are in her favor, save for that pesky Tome pull), could she take this Talent, say "Sorcery" and "Tomes" and pull that puppy off nearly every time, provided 6 or better is yanked from the deck (or cheated)?

If that is not that case, what are some recommended ways to approach pulling off a spell as consistently as possible. (for what it's worth, she opted for Personal Theory)

Thanks again y'all, any advice and answers are going to be helpful.

[Shadowopal]

Yep.  That is a thing. 

[GummyGator]

Yes, attack spells not only need to get both the suit and TN to cast the spell but also need to beat the Wp or Df of their target to actually hit.  Think of it like this, hitting the TN means the spell happens.  Beating the Wp/Df means the spell was aimed properly/had enough force behind it.

Baseline magic is really easy to pull off for anyone who specs into it heavily.  However, I wouldn't worry too much about it as it really doesn't outpace what a melee focused or gun focused character can accomplish.  A well speced sniper or shotgun toting fella can destroy minions and even enforcers on even average flips with ease.

As far as combat goes I can tell you from experience that it's pretty swingy.  You're going to have to feel out what your players can handle a little at a time and adjust as you go.  I find the most difficult thing for my players to handle is 6-8 basic minions with an enforcer or two to back them up and even then I haven't had anyone come close to death before the encounter was obliterated.  Of course the first couple of sessions they nearly got wiped by rats because nobody thought toughness or evade were worth putting points into so YMMV.

The biggest tip I can give for the game is set the right tone and don't be afraid to veer away from the given world as written if it makes for a better story.  Tone is difficult and will vary slightly from group to group but I find it works best when you straddle the line between despair and hope.  Keep the pressure on the characters but always leave a window open to escape through.  Then put an eldritch horror just outside the window for them to run into. Give out goodies frequently, especially grimoires, and then remind them the consequences of flaunting those goodies too openly.  Remind them that in malifaux "bad things happen", but also remind them that malifaux breeds "heroes" in the old sense of the word; there's always someone with the will and maybe even the way to take on the bad of the world even if it's by the skin of their teeth.

As an example of veering away from the given word, I've rewritten a couple of major plot points, added a tyrant or two, bent the rules of what it means to be a Death Marshal, and changed motivations of a couple named characters because it made sense for the story I and my player's characters were telling.  I've added earthside groups/locations, fleshed out the religions both breachside and earthside, came up with a couple of minor criminal organizations opposed to the ten thunders for plot reasons, etc.  In other words.  Take what works, throw out what doesn't, and make it your own.  But then that's how I run most any setting so I may be a bit biased.

Oh, and on that note, so long as you feel comfortable with bending even the strict adherence to to rules I highly suggest allowing Manifest Powers that aren't just a spell from the books.  Let the players get creative with what they want their power to do (within reason) and then make it work mechanically.  It's way more interesting to say "My bow wielding hunter who grew up in the jungle can't be surprised by ambushes" or "I can cause guns to jam by concentrating on them intently" than "it is to say "I can cast beckon without a grimoire".

As far as mechanics/running the game tips, have the skills list, martial arts/pugilism/brawling damage tables, and tn/margins of success tables handy in an easily referenced place.  I can't tell you how often it's been great to have those ready to go without having to flip through the book.

[Grimcleaver]

Read the fiction. Most games have goshawful fiction. Not this one. There's no better way to get a feel for the kind of stories you're going to want to be telling than to start with the 1.5 Core book and just read all the fiction in all the books.

Malifaux doesn't have a lot of variety of antagonists. You have zombies, Neverborn (which can look like anything, but most of the time look like big demons), big mutant animals and gremlins (basically hillbilly goblins) but the last two you really only run into outside the city. Other than that it's all humans. That's really not a huge canvas, and you run out of new stuff surprisingly fast, so you really have to make the game about people--because if you're just doing missions throwing the PCs against the monster of the week, you're going to run out pretty quick.

Thus the setting's history and mythology is a *big* deal, and you can't really find most of it on a wiki or anything. It's just not out there anywhere yet. It's pretty much exclusively in the fiction. The good news is the fiction is amazingly good and readable. Most of it has even been turned into radio plays you can listen to on breachsidebroadcast.com.

You really will want to understand the different factions, who their leaders and major characters are, and how to present them right. The mood and flavor of Malifaux is a touchy thing and you'll want to immerse yourself in it. Plus there's a lot of secret lore you won't even know exists until you start reading.

[War Disciple]

I'd suggest keeping an eye out for some things.  Most of my suggestions are combat-related, because I find this is where I find I have to do the most work to keep things balanced.  It's easier with roleplaying, because things are a bit more free-form and you can change things on the fly if your players do something brilliant or entertaining and you want to run with it.  Once you get into Dramatic Time, you're a lot more strictly bound by the rules.

• "Killer" Talent Combos:  There are a lot of Talents out there, and some of them can create some unexpected synergies that can seriously skew the game.  Don't be afraid to say no to allowing certain things in your game if you think it's going to give players too much of an advantage.  The game should be fun and challenging, and every time someone flips a card there should be some risk of failure.  If success is assured, things get very boring very quickly.
• Consider the damage output of your Fated characters - not only how much damage they do, but also how much of a chance of actually hitting a target.  Balance your combats with things that can take that level of punishment.
• Fated gain power fairly quickly.  By the time your player characters have 5 to 7 Pursuit Ranks, you'll find that most Minion level NPCs aren't much of a challenge any more if you play them straight out of the book unless you throw a lot of them at your characters at once.  I suggest you change things up a bit from time to time:
  • Give Fatemaster Characters an extra Talent or two like Hard to Wound or Shrug Off.
    • If all the Fated are ganging up on a single NPC, it probably won't take much to overwhelm the NPC and cripple it.  I've had fights where I thought I put out a challenging opponent, only to have it knocked into negative wounds on the first round of Dramatic Time and killed by the second.  Fights like that are no fun.
  • Bump a Fatemaster Character's Rank up a level or two (but be careful you don't create an opponent that the Fated can't hit or hurt).
  • Give Fatemaster Characters an extra Card Point or two.  Even if Fatemaster characters don't have special abilities that activate with a discarded card, Actions like Defensive Stance still need a discard to work.
• The Slow Condition and in-combat healing can drastically alter the outcome of a fight.  Be careful of using either too much as a Fatemaster, and be aware of Fated who can use either one freely.

I would say overall the most thing to keep in mind with Through the Breach is that it is not meant to be a game of intricate details (like, for example, Dark Heresy or any of the Fantasy Flight Games Warhammer 40K RPGs).  A lot of the "balance" comes from within the narrative, not the game mechanics.  For example, there's a Talent that lets an Arcanist greatly expand her grimoire (spell book), and if multiple Arcanists have the same Talent, they can expand each others' grimoires so that they've got numerous extra spells or Immuto. It seriously increases the versatility of these characters.  The balance?  Well, there isn't one in the actual mechanics of the game, but there is a narrative balance: large grimoires are valuable and can attract a lot of dangerous, unwanted attention.  Fated who insist on expanding their grimoires to a large degree risk being robbed or killed for their spells.

If you have a situation where a player may do something overpowering and you don't necessarily want to just arbitrarily say no, think about what can be done as part of the story to limit it.  Everything has consequences, and as they say in Malifaux:  Bad things happen.

 

 

[Paneki21]

I really appreciate all of the helpful tips and advice. You guys are great. I'll have these printed and onhand, reciting them as mantra in my head as I build stories and consider encounters. I would however be hesitant to hand out grimiores alot, but I can see the benefit to letting a new group get a sense of how spell casting works as a mechanic, rather than just watching our Manifest Power driven caster do the same thing without any tampering with the spell effect. Anywho, with all that said, it's been a good week since my original post, and we've finished character building across the whole group. They are considering why they would be on a train to Malifaux, while I start coming up with the first few days in the city. What to do, what challenges to face. I've already come across a few trip ups regarding their "attacks" however. 

One character chose to become a Martial Arts expert, flavored around a gentleman Native American who is as at home in nature as he is in a rented hotel room. With Tanto in mind, mixed with The Legend of Kung fu guy (i didnt have the heart to inform him on the most recent events involving David Carradine, but I was secretly hoping he would add that flavor into it too  "My character is REALLY good at holding his breath....because....reasons." ), In the books I was unable to find what his attack would be, as an open handed punch. Is there a basic attack I should be looking at, and what would Martial Arts grant to it as a benefit? He chose Primal, so I know his damage is +1 thanks to the Force of Nature Talent.

Additionally, how does counterspellling work? Our sorcerer knows this as well, and I'm envisioning it as some kind of reaction to being attacked by a spell. I'm used to Dnd 4th editions "immediate reactions", but I dont thing this game has those. More or less, just triggers is all I see as the only thing to interrupt someone's turn in combat. Will she have a say in every spell being cast on the battlefield? Just ones against her? Or is it more infrequent than that? 

If there is simply a page I have stuck together in my books, direct my to the right pages and the book, and I'll make sense of it myself. But any help would be nice. 

[War Disciple]

3 hours ago, Paneki21 said:

In the books I was unable to find what his attack would be, as an open handed punch. Is there a basic attack I should be looking at, and what would Martial Arts grant to it as a benefit?

Hey there.  "Bare hand" damage can be found in the Fated Almanac, page 18.  Damage is based on your current Rank in the skill, and the tables include "Rank 0" for both Martial Arts and Pugilism.  You may want to consider having all your players record their "unarmed" damage, even if they don't have Martial Arts or Pugilism.  Sooner or later, they're going to need to throw a punch.

One thing to keep in mind is that Pugilism is based of Might (strength) and Martial Arts is based of Speed.  I usually let my players select whichever skill fits their Aspects the best.

3 hours ago, Paneki21 said:

Additionally, how does counterspellling work?

Counter-spelling is in the Fated Almanac on p245.  The skill can actually do several things, not the least of which potentially boost a low Df and Wp against magical effects by letting you substitute your Counter-Spelling Ranks in place of the Aspects you normally use to to calculate Df and Wp.  That's about as close as Counter-Spelling gets to an "immediate reaction."  There are sensing and disenchanting abilities as well, but those take time to work and are very short-ranged.  There's a nifty Talent or two that can make Counter-Spelling very impressive (and it isn't overpowered).

I once created a "tank" character who was essentially a drunk but practically indestructible.  I had this image in my mind of him being at the heart of a fireball, and as the flame clears he's still there, waving unsteadily as if nothing happened.

[explorator]

Don't forget to check out the FAQ.  Get familiar with the Ongoing Challenge rules and use them anytime you might otherwise be overwhelmed by tracking too many details. You can even use Ongoing Challenges for combat with damage flips for failures. Most Fated are glass canons, and that is where balancing things in combat gets tricky. Assume 10 is a nice rule (pg. 199)

[Omenbringer]

On 7/28/2016 at 6:41 PM, War Disciple said:

I'd suggest keeping an eye out for some things.  Most of my suggestions are combat-related, because I find this is where I find I have to do the most work to keep things balanced.  It's easier with roleplaying, because things are a bit more free-form and you can change things on the fly if your players do something brilliant or entertaining and you want to run with it.  Once you get into Dramatic Time, you're a lot more strictly bound by the rules.

• Fated gain power fairly quickly.  By the time your player characters have 5 to 7 Pursuit Ranks, you'll find that most Minion level NPCs aren't much of a challenge any more if you play them straight out of the book unless you throw a lot of them at your characters at once.  I suggest you change things up a bit from time to time:
  • Give Fatemaster Characters an extra Talent or two like Hard to Wound or Shrug Off.
    • If all the Fated are ganging up on a single NPC, it probably won't take much to overwhelm the NPC and cripple it.  I've had fights where I thought I put out a challenging opponent, only to have it knocked into negative wounds on the first round of Dramatic Time and killed by the second.  Fights like that are no fun.
  • Bump a Fatemaster Character's Rank up a level or two (but be careful you don't create an opponent that the Fated can't hit or hurt).

 

I can not agree more that the strength of the game is in the Story (or as War Discipline states "roleplaying") rather than combat.

This is definitely the weakest area of the game. Combats tend to be difficult to balance at all levels for a few reasons. First, the Fated are intended to be "action heroes" in the vein of a typical Steven Seagal movie (i.e. the lower ranked non-fated present very little challenge or threat due to their low static resolution values). Second, the character creation system is very "munchkinable" allowing starting Fated to begin at very high AV's particularly in combat related values. Third, the static resolution system for the non-fated makes the higher ranked non-fated nearly impossible to beat (even for very experienced Fated players). My recommendation is to begin with Enforcers as your basic Non-fated rank. They are the non-fated rank that is closest to the fated's random value generated by the communal fate deck. They will also generally have similar stat lines. This rank should be able to provide a "fair" challenge/threat for a long while.

I would be very careful of introducing the higher ranked non-fated, even a lower stat lined Henchman provides substantial challenge due to its higher static resolution value as compared to the fated's random value. War Discipline is not over stating the potential threat of higher ranked non-fated. Even a party of fully developed fated characters will struggle against a single higher stated Henchman.

What you don't want to do is get into an adversarial mode with your players. There are a few ways to achieve this. This includes building the expectation of story over combat early (this can be done in a variety of ways) and gauging the maturity of your players (i.e. are they "munchkin" players). If all your players desire a role playing experience with combat as an occasional aside then the system is likely a good fit. If your players (though a singular "player" can also affect this) want a more combat oriented experience (a fair expectation given the systems TTG inspiration) then you might be better served with a different system.

If you get the balance right Combats will be fun and challenging not "walk thru's" or "soul crushing, party Killers".

As for

On 7/24/2016 at 10:10 PM, Paneki21 said:

Spellcasting however proved to be kind of iffy with the starter character. I got the impression that it's tough to pull off magic consistently. THEN, I come across this Talent "specialized skill" which allows you to pick a suit to have added to a prenamed skill for duel. What i'm just checking I guess is that, are attacks considered duels for these skill checks? the situation is my girlfriend has chosen a Mage, and picked a relatively easy spell as her Manifested Power, with a TN of 12, and her Sorcery at a 6 right off the bat (needing only a 6 from what i'm gathering, odds are in her favor, save for that pesky Tome pull), could she take this Talent, say "Sorcery" and "Tomes" and pull that puppy off nearly every time, provided 6 or better is yanked from the deck (or cheated)?

The magic system has gotten much better (read as more complete) with the release of additional supplements such as Into the Steam and Under Quarantine. I strongly recommend those books, they also provide a lot more detail into the world. I would be careful about making magic more reliable, a lot of those spells are very potent and can introduce new issues.

[War Disciple]

17 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

This includes building the expectation of story over combat early (this can be done in a variety of ways) and gauging the maturity of your players (i.e. are they "munchkin" players). If all your players desire a role playing experience with combat as an occasional aside then the system is likely a good fit. If your players (though a singular "player" can also affect this) want a more combat oriented experience (a fair expectation given the systems TTG inspiration) then you might be better served with a different system.

Yes!  I have to say, if there is one thing I wish I could do over with my own group it's more clearly define that "expectation of story over combat" right from the outset.  Some of my players got it, and built strong, interesting character concepts before the first character generation card was flipped.  One of my players definitely didn't, and I needed to have regular conversations about sticking to a concept and not taking Pursuits, Talents and Skills just because it will break the game in his favour.  He's better about it now, but it was at times painful.

EDIT:  Sorry, I can't seem to get rid of that formatting for a second quote...

On 24/07/2016 at 10:10 PM, Paneki21 said: