Getting second master - looking at Yan Lo

[whodares]

As the title sais, i'm looking at Yan Lo to become my second master. I currently have Shenlong with The Lone Swordsman and a couple of Katanaka Snipers.

I was mainly looking at getting a bit more of a killy crew and started checking out Izamu. Naturally I ended up with Yan Lo.

 

But if you want a killy crew, just grab Misaka !?!

I will probably get Misaki eventually, but I prefer to have some form of unique mechanic. With Yan Lo, you have his Lightning Dance. With Shenlong there are his styles. Misaki is just "get extra attacks and follow your target", which doesn't really feel unique to me.

 

While checking it out, I started making a list of what I would use for Yan Lo.

 

The list I have right now is as follows:

• Yan Lo obviously
• The Lone Swordsman
• Izamu
• Soul Porter

And I still have plenty of SoulStones left for other models.

My main goal will be to lightning dance models into Izamu and Swordsman so they can finish the job.

What models would you advise and why?

I have seen a lot of references to Toshiro, but don't see how he could work well in my list. Having 3 models take about 30 stones is not really smart.

Komainu seems pretty nice with the slow they can dish out as well.

Punk zombies are also mentioned, but I think I'd prefer to take High River Monks if I want to kill stuff solo.

I have heard the Schemes and Stones podcast about him, which gave some great insight in both Yan Lo and models. That's basicly were I got my references from.

 

So again, which models do you suggest with Yan Lo and why?

[SinJ]

Hey I'd check out the existing thread on Yan Lo as it covers a lot of strategy with him. In general though Yan Lo doesn't do most or any of the killing he enables your army. He is a position dependent master and you have a few different mechanics to build for in your lists.

 

[Eclipse]

If you want a killy, KILLY! crew go with Jacob Lynch & co.
Misaki is killy, too, but relies quite a bit on her crew who should each fulfill different roles. She is also surprisingly versatile after you learn her more.

However, if Yan the Man caught your eye, it's all good. Still, keep the following points in mind:
- the thematic models of Yan Lo are the Ancestors + Retainers, and they are better in persistently staying alive (and potentially coming back) rather than killing (except Izamu perhaps);
- As you note, the premier action that separates Yan Lo from the rest of the faction is Lightning Dance. Let's think about what it does: It allows you to place an enemy next to -a friendly- while Yan Lo teleports close to the former's previous location. This is very good if you can (2) Fury of the Yomi straight away (which is an upgrade ability) and which requires you to have Spirits (Izamu, Komainu, if you (1) turned  model into a Spirit with Armor+2. If not, however, then you want to place the enemy next to something that can survive the next activation and possibly deal a Flurry or so of attacks with solid damage. This ain't High River Monks (besides, they prefer to charge, and you put the enemy model straight in their face). Izamu, Komainu, Ashigaru (summoned by Toshiro), Ototo are models like this. Depending on the enemy, Lone Swordsman and the Punk Zombies could do this well, too;
- Don't forget Chi management! This is the unique mechanic of Yan Lo you should be paying attention to all the time. While Lightning Dance sets up the board, Chi makes all his Ca actions stronger, and he needs that. He can (0) heal better with Chi, and he can (0) Ascend paying with Chi. Tailor the Ascendant upgrade you are paying for to your needs and how much Chi you have. Some tricks you use to gain more Chi: a) Deal 4 damage with Spirit Barrage on Izamu or something else with Armor, possibly Illuminated? If it's something that can heal itself, even better, otherwise heal the sucker yourself. B/ You can also kill one of your own Komainu or Ashigaru for up to three Chi, then use Toshiro to summon a new model from the marker. c) stay close to models that kill each other d) charge something with the Soul Porter and his ridiculous for a gimp 3" range, leach some Chi and give it to the Master e) using the trigger on Chiaki's (0) gain Chi and transfer it to Yan Lo when activating her next turn f) you can always discard at the start of Yan Lo's activation to give him Chi+1;
- If you want you can also super-supercharge Yan Lo. Take the Shadow Emissary which will also count as an Ancestor so you can be more aggressive with it and bring it back later if you have the Reliquary. Yan Lo's Emissary upgrade boosts his Brutal Khakharra melee from the upgrade to Ml6, which is something else entirely compared to Ml5. Give Yan Lo fast with Sensei Yu (who will have to take the Wandering River upgrade). Pop a Recalled Training on Yan Lo's turn, pay 3 Chi for the Bone Ascendant upgrade, then teleport 8" to make a Ml6 and dmg ++ attack on all enemies 2" away. Do it AGAIN because you are fast, and furious, and have a nasty beard.

As for what to take: Seeing that you will already have decided on Izamu and the Swordsman (who are also good with Shenlong) I would take some other type of unit to cover for their weaknesses. For example, you lack scheme runners and ranged attackers. For scheme runners you can take, say, Tengu, or Komainu, or Torakage (any low SS model goes, really). For ranged you can use Snipers (you already know that they are also good with Shenlong) or maybe even Thunder Archers (who are also good with Shenlong, but everything is good with Shenlong, really) to be able to shoot into melee at the models you Lightning Danced. If you take the latter, be careful as they are extremely squishy. Use a babysitter model to carry their upgrade so they can also shoot with low dmg blasts ignoring LoS end of turn. For tougher models to hold on to a model you can take Izamu, Komainu, Ashigaru, Ototo. The first three of the bunch also fit the 'return from the dead zombiyeeeaiiiss' theme. The latter comes in the Misaki box and does not have much syngergy with his Mistress, if any. For this reason he would be very happy to work for Ancestor Yan and his beard and can get healed after taking too much pummeling. In short:
- Going thematic? Izamu, Komainu, maybe Toshiro and Ashigaru if you want to ressurrect stuff;
- Going Misaki? Take Ototo as the heavy tarpit/beatstick and Torakage as scheme runners;
- Going TT than most? Izamu, Archers for ranged and Tengu as scheme runners.
In addition, you could check out the two threads about Yan Lo - one here in the TT forum and the more massive one on the Resserectionist side.
Hope this helps, long bla-bla over/

[OneLittleThunder]

I am a big fan of Yan Lo; he's not very killy himself, but can be extremely tanky and is great at getting your models where you want them and your opponent's models where they don't.

Having Izamu and the Lone Swordsman in the same list might be offensive overkill; depending on the strat and schemes, it might make more sense to bring along Toshiro (who is about the only summoning that 10T have access to) and some strong minions (who can benefit nicely from Toshiro's abilities).

Yin is an amazing tarpit.

You'll need some good scheme runners; I'm a huge fan of Ten Thunders Brothers for this role, but Tengu or even Torakage can work as well.

Oh, and if you want a really killy crew, consider Jakob Lynch. He may not look it, but the man is a killing machine.

[whodares]

Well, this generated a faster response than expected. Thanks for the replies so far.

I have already looked at several threads here on the forum, but they didn't quite give me the information I needed, hence why I made this thread. I don't like hijacking other people's threads.

I'm kind of sad that Sensei Yu isn't mentioned by anyone, yet the Emissary IS mentioned. Is there any point where you would take Yu over the Emissary or is that just personal preference. The thread that @SaintScythus linked has both pro and contra, yet only 1 person in the entire thread mentioned Yu over the Emissary. I'm personally not really that fond of the Emissary, so what exactly am I missing on him that makes him so awesome?

@OneLittleThunder mentioned offensive overkill by having both Izamu and Swordsman, but isn't that really a good thing about it? Lightning Dance a model into those 2 and makde sure that model dies.

I'm currently using the High River Monks as scheme runners in my Shenlong crew and they are doing rather well. I manage to position them well enough that they can always charge the enemy and get their 3 attacks off before they die. This usually turns into a 1 for 1 trade of models, but now the opponent also is without a scheme runner and Shenlong has less worries about that.

 

@Eclipse Thank you for the wall of text. It's well-written and really comprehensive of strengths and weaknesses. My problem right now is that I want to take too many strong models and am ignoring weaker, yet necessary models.

 

If I understand everything correctly, The Lone Swordsman is not really a good fit for Yan Lo as I already have Izamu and I can put these Stones to better use.

Yan himself can become a beast later if you take the Brutal Khakkhara upgrade on him, but I feel like there's barely any room for it.

The way I'm picturing Yan right now is with Reliquary, Fortify the Spirit and Misdirection for support and not dying instantly if he gets focussed early. Having 2 defensive triggers on 2 different sets of cards (Tomes and Masks iirc) makes it easier to get out of a defense without having to cheat.

I'm looking at playing Yan defensively for the first 1 or 2 turns and then just Lightning Dancing my way to victory. Defensively for the first 2 turns to build up the required Chi and then just jumping into as many models as possible to get as many models tied up in engagement with him as possible. I would think having Impossible to Wound, Incorporeal, Fortify the Spirit AND Misdirection makes it extremely hard to kill him in a single turn when I'm engaged to something like 3 enemy models.

 

What I have gathered so far is that good buys would be Komainu, Izamu and Toshiro as the Soul Porter and Ashigaru are already in the Yan Lo box.

[SinJ]

I think you've got the most of it. Yan Lo definitely wants to focus on building defenses then becoming a very difficult to remove thorn in your opponents side. I personally never pay stones for Komaimu or Ashigaru as I'm generally taking Toshiro to create them himself. At the worst they cost one stone and a higher card in hand. In my lists Punk Zombies do most of the heavy lifting under Toshiro. Obsidian Oni have really good synergy with Komainu as well for how cheap they are. I would highly recommend you pickup Tengu for scheme runners. Fury of the Yomi with Tengu will secure you wins via finishing schemes your opponent didn't see coming. I usually take two, the Effigy and Chiaki to run schemes.

Also I've got nothing against Sensei Yu I just feel that he is a very expensive support piece. I find that the Emissary is a much more effective supporter that also brings a solid attack. Downside is you will need to proxy a model until his release hopefully this summer. The Emissary's buff to Brutal Khakkara really is a game changer especially if you want to keep a model locked into combat and you have a high card in hand. In addition I frequently bring a Freikorps Librarian for healing and additional casting power with Recalled Training alongside the Emissary.

One last thing for Yan Lo especially as a newer player. Play at least 5 stone cache if not full stones at 7. The power to reduce damage further onto Yan Lo is crucial and you usually are going to be stoning for cards most turns. I really try to bring Sue in my lists with Yan Lo as well to help protect vs casting attacks and for draw.

[OneLittleThunder]

1 hour ago, whodares said:

I'm kind of sad that Sensei Yu isn't mentioned by anyone, yet the Emissary IS mentioned. Is there any point where you would take Yu over the Emissary or is that just personal preference. The thread that @SaintScythus linked has both pro and contra, yet only 1 person in the entire thread mentioned Yu over the Emissary. I'm personally not really that fond of the Emissary, so what exactly am I missing on him that makes him so awesome?

Sensei Yu (at least without Shenlong) is more of a specialist for me. Usually I'll take him with Wandering River Style specifically for Mighty Gust when there are specific schemes that particularly benefit from that ability (Detonate the Charges, Set Up, maybe Leave Your Mark). Other than that, I tend to prefer the Emissary because he can hand out pushes and Fast just as well as the Sensei, AND he hits a lot harder in combat (2/3/6 may seem too swingy at first glance, but doing it with Focus +2 is a whole other ball game). His Ancestral Conflux also makes Brutal Khakkhara a much more significant threat, and he can be recycled with Reliquary (which is often more valuable as a threat than as something you actually do, but it can discourage opponents from spending a lot of effort to kill the Emissary).

That said, I can see a case for bringing Yu with Yan Lo to add another source of healing via a copied Instill Youth, and he can occasionally do fun tricks if he gets some Chi and copies Ascendance from Yan Lo.

1 hour ago, whodares said:

@OneLittleThunder mentioned offensive overkill by having both Izamu and Swordsman, but isn't that really a good thing about it? Lightning Dance a model into those 2 and makde sure that model dies.

Well, sure...but I'm not convinced it's worth spending the full activations on 18 points of models plus at least one of your Master's AP to kill one model per turn. Izamu can do most of that work himself, maybe with a little help from a nearby minion. I am a big fan of the Lone Swordsman, but if you do bring both of them in a list, I'd probably split them up; let Izamu serve as the blender that things get Lightning Danced into, while the Lone Swordsman goes hunting.

Another option is to take Toshiro with a Punk Zombie or two. Lightning Dancing an enemy into a pair of (potentially Fast, potentially Flurrying) Punk Zombies with  to Attack flips will make them very sad, and then Toshiro can make an Ashigaru or Komainu out of the remains. Yes, it's more SS than hiring Izamu and the Swordsman, but it provides more activations, summoning, an extra way to give out Fast, and uses Minions rather than Enforcers (relevant in some of the GG2016 schemes).

@SaintScythus' comment about not hiring Ashigaru when Toshiro is around agrees with my experience; that said, if I bring Toshiro I usually hire at least one Komainu or other Construct, so I have a source of Scrap markers in case the opponent doesn't provide any.

I find Tengu just a little too fragile as scheme runners, but perhaps I'm just spoiled by using Ten Thunder Brothers. Either should work, and I haven't tried abusing them with Fury of the Yomi, so that's certainly worth a look.

[SinJ]

@OneLittleThunderDeleted my comment due to rules misreading.

Edited May 12, 2016 by SaintScythus
Rules

[whodares]

What I've gathered is that The Lone Swordsman works fine when split up as he can slice a model by himself. I'm gonna try and scrap him from my list though. You've convinced me for toshiro.

 

I'm currently looking at something like this:

 

• Yan Lo with Misdirection, Fortify the Spirit and Reliquary
• Soul Porter
• Toshiro with Command the Graves
• Izamu with Recalled Training
• Komainu

 

This leaves me with another 17 potential for models.

What would you see as a better scenario:

1. 2x Punk Zombie and finish on 7 SoulStone cache
2. 1X Punk Zombie and 1 Emissary to finish with 4 SoulStone cache
3. Dump Komainu, get 2x Punk Zombie and 1X katanaka Sniper to end on 4 SoulStone cache
4. Something else

The above scenario's have no scheme runners for me, so that's a weakness. On the other hand I can split my forces in 2 - Toshiro and Zombies on 1 side of the map and the rest on the other side of the map, but that wouldn't be all too effective. I'm just not really conviced of the Tengu, but that's probably because I haven't played with them. Just looking at their stats and having no defense, I feel like they could get taken out in 1 turn by too many models.

As for the Brutal melee upgrade, when would you take it? I can't really find any good use for it as I'm already taking Misdirection, Fortify the Spirit and Reliquary. WHich one would you drop for brutal and why?

[Eclipse]

12 hours ago, SaintScythus said:

@OneLittleThunder You should definitely try the Obsidian Oni with Toshiro and a sacrifical Wastrel. You can get two scrap and a corpse on turn one quite easily. I've found that Tengu's flight is very useful for getting through a well set up board.

You can only get this many markers on Turn 1 if you can hit enemy models with the Obsidian Oni twice. The trigger to drop a scheme marker on a tome is specifically against enemy models only so that it can't be abused as easily.

[SinJ]

10 minutes ago, Eclipse said:

You can only get this many markers on Turn 1 if you can hit enemy models with the Obsidian Oni twice. The trigger to drop a scheme marker on a tome is specifically against enemy models only so that it can't be abused as easily.

Thanks for the heads up on that. Rules!

[Tawg]

22 minutes ago, Eclipse said:

You can only get this many markers on Turn 1 if you can hit enemy models with the Obsidian Oni twice. The trigger to drop a scheme marker on a tome is specifically against enemy models only so that it can't be abused as easily.

Damn design team learning from our exploitative nature. 

On the other hand, Yan can still stab Izamu in the back and just wave it off for Chi

[SinJ]

21 hours ago, whodares said:

What I've gathered is that The Lone Swordsman works fine when split up as he can slice a model by himself. I'm gonna try and scrap him from my list though. You've convinced me for toshiro.

 

I'm currently looking at something like this:

 

• Yan Lo with Misdirection, Fortify the Spirit and Reliquary
• Soul Porter
• Toshiro with Command the Graves
• Izamu with Recalled Training
• Komainu

 

This leaves me with another 17 potential for models.

What would you see as a better scenario:

1. 2x Punk Zombie and finish on 7 SoulStone cache
2. 1X Punk Zombie and 1 Emissary to finish with 4 SoulStone cache
3. Dump Komainu, get 2x Punk Zombie and 1X katanaka Sniper to end on 4 SoulStone cache
4. Something else

The above scenario's have no scheme runners for me, so that's a weakness. On the other hand I can split my forces in 2 - Toshiro and Zombies on 1 side of the map and the rest on the other side of the map, but that wouldn't be all too effective. I'm just not really conviced of the Tengu, but that's probably because I haven't played with them. Just looking at their stats and having no defense, I feel like they could get taken out in 1 turn by too many models.

As for the Brutal melee upgrade, when would you take it? I can't really find any good use for it as I'm already taking Misdirection, Fortify the Spirit and Reliquary. WHich one would you drop for brutal and why?

Keep in mind that Komaimu do make decent scheme runners with Yan Lo as they are also spirits for the purposes of Fury of the Yomi. I think that your best option is probably number 1 but two punk Zombies is pretty overkill with Izamu also on board. In general I would never go below 5 cache with Yan Lo. 

If you take the Emissary you can build a more elite list of specialists. As you are going to be building up Yan Lo for Hunpo Assaulting I usually focus on upgrading and getting my pieces into position early turns. This list is also fairly versatile for accomplishing most Strategies and Schemes. In general Enforces are a lot more strong in GG2016.

I do think the Emissary kind of forces you to make weird list choices as you want to bring as many models with upgrades as possible, but he can't push and make Yan Lo fast as that's what you really want. For this reason more than anything you will want to be building Yan Lo to Hunpo Assault so that he can place, do some damage and go defensive or just be a very hard to kill tarpit.

 

My Yan Lo Emissary list looks like the following:

Yan Lo - 6 Cache Misdirection, Brutal Khakkhara

Shadow Emissary - Ancestral Conflux

Lust - Recalled Training +Provides Draw and can deal heavy damage on a good opportunity

The Lone Swordsman - RT +Versatile scalpel or scheme runner

Freikorps Librarian - RT +Can heal Yan Lo and adds some CA with Blasts

Shadow Effigy +Early game Chi punching bag, accomplishes schemes with Tengu later. Into Shadow excellent on Yan Lo

Tengu +Good cheap scheme runner, can also provide Regeneration

 

[whodares]

47 minutes ago, SaintScythus said:

Keep in mind that Komaimu do make decent scheme runners with Yan Lo as they are also spirits for the purposes of Fury of the Yomi. I think that your best option is probably number 1 but two punk Zombies is pretty overkill with Izamu also on board. In general I would never go below 5 cache with Yan Lo. 

If you take the Emissary you can build a more elite list of specialists. As you are going to be building up Yan Lo for Hunpo Assaulting I usually focus on upgrading and getting my pieces into position early turns. This list is also fairly versatile for accomplishing most Strategies and Schemes. In general Enforces are a lot more strong in GG2016.

I do think the Emissary kind of forces you to make weird list choices as you want to bring as many models with upgrades as possible, but he can't push and make Yan Lo fast as that's what you really want. For this reason more than anything you will want to be building Yan Lo to Hunpo Assault so that he can place, do some damage and go defensive or just be a very hard to kill tarpit.

 

My Yan Lo Emissary list looks like the following:

Yan Lo - 6 Cache Misdirection, Brutal Khakkhara

Shadow Emissary - Ancestral Conflux

Lust - Recalled Training +Provides Draw and can deal heavy damage on a good opportunity

The Lone Swordsman - RT +Versatile scalpel or scheme runner

Freikorps Librarian - RT +Can heal Yan Lo and adds some CA with Blasts

Shadow Effigy +Early game Chi punching bag, accomplishes schemes with Tengu later. Into Shadow excellent on Yan Lo

Tengu +Good cheap scheme runner, can also provide Regeneration

 

Completely looked over the fact that Komainu are also Spirits. It would indeed make them good for scheme running IF I manage to use them properly (which is a man-sized IF). I might just go for a combination with Tengu and Punk Zombie, but it's a bit of a toss-up on what the schemes and strat give me.

 

You mention building Yan Lo mainly for Hunpo Assault, but your list barely has any way to generate Chi. From what I can see, you can only get Chi from Yan Lo and killing stuff/ getting stuff killed. Considering that you also don't take Fortify the Spirit, how are you getting the Chi and keeping him alive? It just seems to me that Misdirection alone is not enough to keep him alive if you go in for the Hunpo Assault.

[OneLittleThunder]

I'll say at the outset that I'm not a fan of fixed lists, so any or all of your ideas could be good choices in the right strategy/scheme mix. For something like Hunting Party, I might forego the Punk Zombies and Toshiro entirely, instead taking a few sturdy minions (Komainu, 10T Brothers) and maybe an extra Enforcer (bringing the Lone Swordsman back). If Show of Force is in the mix, maybe give Toshiro his own Recalled Training or another cheap upgrade. The Sniper is great for Collect the Bounty but not so good for Headhunter. Etc.

Ways to get Chi: Don't forget that the Soul Porter has a built-in trigger to hand out Chi when it does damage. The damage isn't much, but the 3" range is pretty handy, and it attacks Wp with Ca 6, which is quite accurate for a 3ss model. Beyond that, I can usually find one crappy card to discard a turn, and Yan Lo's 8" Harvest Chi bubble is big enough that there is usually a death or two nearby.

Hunpo Assault is nice if you have the Brutal Khakkhara; the 1" range on his basic attack doesn't usually provide enough targets for the 3-Chi upgrade to be worthwhile IMO. As for the Brutal K. itself, 3/4/5 is a good damage track, and doing damage as a disengaging strike is pretty key if you want Yan Lo to be a tarpit (which he's very good at). Obviously. the +1 Ml from the Emissary's Ancestral Conflux makes it a lot better! Of the three you list, I'd probably drop Fortify the Spirit; FtS never seems to come up often enough to be useful for me. Honestly, with Incorporeal, Impossible to Wound, Misdirection, and a few Soulstones, I think Yan will be just fine. By the time he dies, it will probably be late enough in the game that it doesn't matter (barring Assassinate/Neutralize the Leader).

[whodares]

I'm of thesame mindset that fixed lists aren't good, but I'm a new player with limited models. Looking for optimized generalist lists is currently the way to go for me. that said, I'm always buying an extra model just to keep the options open in case the strategy/schemes don't favor my "main" lineup.

 

My point for the Chi generation was more for the list you provided, which only has Yan Lo. Taking Soul Porter does indeed do quite a lot and the first 2 turns you can usually discard a card for the Chi generation without sacrificing too much.

You mention having the other 2 upgrades, but where is all that Chi coming from? 1 card is worth 1 Chi, a severe hit is worth 1 Chi, getting a kill is worth 1 Chi, Soul Porter can transfer Chi, but this all requires tremendous setup. Are you only going in for Hunpo Assualt from Turn 4 or am I missing special tricks here? I know about the trick of killing a Komainu and getting 3 Chi on that 1 turn, but that is risky to do in most scenario's.

Getting enough Chi to get all 3 upgrades in a reasonable amount of time seems hard to me. Perhaps this is because I haven't played with him yet?

[SinJ]

Honestly once you start putting him on the table you will discover things for yourself. The main reason Yan Lo is so discounted as a master is because he doesn't look powerful on the surface. As long as you have the mentality of not being afraid to get him involved he will provide a solid game. Play with what you have and don't get too frustrated if it doesn't all come together at first.

[Yvarre]

I usually field Yan Lo crews in strats where models will bunch like Extraction and Turf War.  One of my favorite openings is to use Sensei Yu to push Izamu up 10" or so with fast and them pop the Recalled Training to take down a key model or two.  Then on the next turn or two more models get diverted from other things to come score strat points, and Yu can give Yan Lo fast to Hunpo Assault twice.  I find Yu invaluable at helping with the mobility issues of the slower ancestor models.  I think my favorite crew with Yan Lo so far is Yan (w/ Brutal, Reliquary, and RT), Porter, Chiaki with Pull of the Grave, Izamu w/ RT, Ototo w/ RT, and Yu with Wandering River Style.  This list, though only 6 models, is incredibly mobile and durable and kinda easy to table an opponent with.  I don't proxy, so I haven't tried the Emissary yet.

[OneLittleThunder]

20 hours ago, whodares said:

I'm of thesame mindset that fixed lists aren't good, but I'm a new player with limited models. Looking for optimized generalist lists is currently the way to go for me. that said, I'm always buying an extra model just to keep the options open in case the strategy/schemes don't favor my "main" lineup.

Totally understood. So with that, the choice of Komainu and 2 Punks vs. Komainu, 1 Punk and the Emissary vs. 2 Punks and a Sniper will always come down to "it depends."

20 hours ago, whodares said:

My point for the Chi generation was more for the list you provided, which only has Yan Lo. Taking Soul Porter does indeed do quite a lot and the first 2 turns you can usually discard a card for the Chi generation without sacrificing too much.

I think you're confusing me with @SaintScythus(not a problem, since we all look alike on the internet anyway).  

20 hours ago, whodares said:

You mention having the other 2 upgrades, but where is all that Chi coming from? 1 card is worth 1 Chi, a severe hit is worth 1 Chi, getting a kill is worth 1 Chi, Soul Porter can transfer Chi, but this all requires tremendous setup. Are you only going in for Hunpo Assualt from Turn 4 or am I missing special tricks here? I know about the trick of killing a Komainu and getting 3 Chi on that 1 turn, but that is risky to do in most scenario's.

Getting enough Chi to get all 3 upgrades in a reasonable amount of time seems hard to me. Perhaps this is because I haven't played with him yet?

I think you will find that Chi generation is a little faster than you expect, especially when Yan Lo gets into the middle of things; the 8" Harvest Chi bubble gives Chi when either side kills an enemy model in almost a quarter of the board, so it can add up quickly. 

That said, I don't focus on Hunpo Assault as much as Scythus does; it gives you an 8" place (which Lightning Dance can more or less do anyway, since you want to be in a cloud of enemy models) and a handful of melee attacks (unlikely to be more than 2 in most cases) for 2 AP. It may save you 1 AP a turn if that's (teleport and attack) is what you wanted to do anyway, but I don't feel like it's usually worth the 3 Chi and spending a turn's 0 action (which could be another upgrade or a crucial heal). I honestly think the best use for it is if you need to do an 8" teleport when there's not an enemy nearby (for a last-turn Entourage, maybe). Other than that, I'd rather keep the 3 Chi and the flexibility...but as always, that's just me. You'll find what works for you - don't be afraid to experiment.

For what it's worth, my upgrade cycle usually looks something like this:

• Turn 1: Discard a card and get Ash Ascendant.
• Turn 2: Discard a card and wound something (or have something nearby die), then get Spirit Ascendant. Yan Lo is now a tanking machine.
• Later turns: Use Chi for casting attacks and heals. If the situation warrants it, pick up Bone Ascendant but don't feel obligated.

I know you've heard the Schemes and Stones episode on Yan Lo (excellent choice) - you might find the Before We Begin episode on him useful as a different perspective. But - and I can't stress this enough, because I make the same mistakes - don't worry too much about your list being "right" or optimized or ideal, just experiment and find your path.  

 

[whodares]

2 hours ago, OneLittleThunder said:

Totally understood. So with that, the choice of Komainu and 2 Punks vs. Komainu, 1 Punk and the Emissary vs. 2 Punks and a Sniper will always come down to "it depends."

I think you're confusing me with @SaintScythus(not a problem, since we all look alike on the internet anyway).  

I think you will find that Chi generation is a little faster than you expect, especially when Yan Lo gets into the middle of things; the 8" Harvest Chi bubble gives Chi when either side kills an enemy model in almost a quarter of the board, so it can add up quickly. 

That said, I don't focus on Hunpo Assault as much as Scythus does; it gives you an 8" place (which Lightning Dance can more or less do anyway, since you want to be in a cloud of enemy models) and a handful of melee attacks (unlikely to be more than 2 in most cases) for 2 AP. It may save you 1 AP a turn if that's (teleport and attack) is what you wanted to do anyway, but I don't feel like it's usually worth the 3 Chi and spending a turn's 0 action (which could be another upgrade or a crucial heal). I honestly think the best use for it is if you need to do an 8" teleport when there's not an enemy nearby (for a last-turn Entourage, maybe). Other than that, I'd rather keep the 3 Chi and the flexibility...but as always, that's just me. You'll find what works for you - don't be afraid to experiment.

For what it's worth, my upgrade cycle usually looks something like this:

• Turn 1: Discard a card and get Ash Ascendant.
• Turn 2: Discard a card and wound something (or have something nearby die), then get Spirit Ascendant. Yan Lo is now a tanking machine.
• Later turns: Use Chi for casting attacks and heals. If the situation warrants it, pick up Bone Ascendant but don't feel obligated.

I know you've heard the Schemes and Stones episode on Yan Lo (excellent choice) - you might find the Before We Begin episode on him useful as a different perspective. But - and I can't stress this enough, because I make the same mistakes - don't worry too much about your list being "right" or optimized or ideal, just experiment and find your path.  

 

Oops, sorry for confusing you guys. I guess I was a bit fast there

I'm going to eventually try out several scenario's depending on the upgrades I take.

FtS, Misdirection and Reliquary VS Misdirection, Reliquary and Brutal VS Misdirection, Brutal and FtS. We'll see what I like most and what works best.

Now my main problem becomes finding people to play against

[OneLittleThunder]

5 minutes ago, whodares said:

Now my main problem becomes finding people to play against

That I cannot help you with...unless you live near Atlanta or enjoy Vassal.

[Bumpasses]

does vassal run on mac?

 

[whodares]

No idea if it runs on Mac. It runs on my Windows 10, but I don't like the feeling of it. I prefer to really see the terrain as opposed to the flat view that Vassal gives.

[SinJ]

I ran Yan Lo last night with Misdirection, Fortify the Spirit and Recalled Training against Guild Perdita. He was such a tarpit/tank that he easily allowed the rest of my crew to complete my schemes and strats. I think that if you aren't running Brutal Khakkara then Misdirection plus Fortify the Spirit is excellent for having two triggers on hand. With Chi +2 or 3 even throwing moderate tomes is like having Severe cards played. Would have won if I didn't make the silly mistake of misunderstanding the center line location (Flank).

[tomjoad]

I found Yan Lo to be more effective when I held onto his Chi as much as possible. When I use him I frequently prefer to heal with his 0 rather than add an upgrade, and making sure he has +3 to Ca for Instill and Lightning Dance is key to how I've succeeded with him. I'd like to try him focusing on Brutal Khakara + Emissary + Hunpo Assault, but I haven't had a chance to test it yet.