Misaki Tactica Revisited

[Rurouni Benshin]

Hi again everyone,

So I've been running into a couple of issues with Misaki as of late.  I'm not exactly sure if it's my tactics, or if it's just bad luck, but in either case, some insight would be appreciated. 

When I first started using her, I went with "Disguise" as her limited upgrade a lot, but I think it's more because of my passive playing style.  I was always afraid of her dying too quickly, and not being able to accomplish what I needed.  That led to problems because I would still use her offensively, but not to her fullest potential (as in without "Stalking Bisento").  So I adapted to playing her with "Stalking Bisento" more, and after getting used to the mechanic (again), I found that she was indeed very powerful.  But now my problem with her is that she's been dying pretty early in my games.  The last 2 games I played with her, she died on turn 2 (one of which game she only got 1 activation).  I don't feel that my target prioritizing was wrong (going after models with relatively lower defenses), which leads me to think it's more bad luck than anything, but I'd like to share my general strategy with you all here, and hope that I can get some helpful feedback in return.

So when I use "Stalking Bisento" Misaki, here's my general tactics:

1.  Sensei Yu is almost always with her now, and goes before she does in most turns.  His first activation is always to use "Disciple" to "Stalk" a model that Misaki can get to relatively easily.  He then casts any combination of "Airburst" and "Mighty Gust" to get her in position to charge said target.  I'm certain that this is a pretty cut and dry tactic, and I'm sure a lot of people already use it.

2.  Misaki is usually one of the last models on my first turn to activate.  However, the problem I run into with her during this time is usually either A ) Not having the right cards in hand to cheat with or B ) not having enough cards to use at all. 

I usually run a cache of 4-5 with her to start, since she becomes so much better with 0 soul stones, but do any of you think it's a viable tactic to use stones on the first turn to draw the extra cards?  I'm considering using Hannah with her crew the next time I play for the extra card draw (and plus you know... because it's Hannah).  I've played the Emissary with her for the both games I recently played, and I imagine with Hannah, would make a great combination.  Then after Hannah, the Emissary, and Sensei Yu, it would leave about 10-12 soulstones to fill out the rest of my crew.

Here's a mock list that I put together for the sake of making one.  While granted it's subject to change, depending on schemes and strategy, I think it's a pretty viable "All-comer list", if you will.

Misaki (Cache: 4)
- Stalking Bisento / Disguised
- Recalled Training
- Smoke and Shadows
Shang
Shadow Emissary
- Conflux of Thunder
Hannah
- Hidden Agenda
Sensei Yu
- Wandering River Style
Shadow Effigy
Oiran

At first glance, I'm not sure if taking "Smoke and Shadows" is worth having for only 1 Last Blossom minion, but it could prove crucial depending on the Strategy or Scheme pool, so my thoughts are mixed about it.  Shadow Effigy is most useful when there's Scheme Markers to be dropped, especially if it's in pairs, so barring the possibility of no schemes needing them, he's a good fit for this crew.  My biggest concern is if I use "Disguised" Misaki for running schemes for me, it leaves Hannah and the Emissary as my beatsticks, who while powerful in their own way, have limited range.  Hannah's "Make a New Entry" would be great for copying the Emissary's primary attack though, and I'm thinking with the right combination, she can get quite a few blasts off her basic attacks too.

Thoughts everyone?

[Eclipse]

Here are my thought about Misaki, the models and upgrades - in no specific order:
1. Don't bother with Smoke and Shadows for one model - unless it is a Jorogumo maybe. In fact, better leave it off Misaki and let Ototo grab it for Oiran or Yamaziko for Torakage/Jorogumo.
2. Never mind the difference in upgrades - Stalking Bisento isn't better per se, it's more aggressive and easier to play. Disguised could wreck just as much, allows for some more tactical play where Misaki uses her mobility not just for killing. Also, it is key when you want to have Misaki survive longer. It seems you want this, right? In fact, if you want a Master that will live long and/or survive the game, pick someone else over Misaki. The Risky Ventures that she undertakes are, most often then not, deadly
3. Sensei Yu is easy mode. Yes, he is amazing with Stalking Bisento. He is also amazing with every other model and master in the faction, I believe. Go back to the roots, play Misaki without him. You have a Master that can charge into the enemy team Turn 1, kill two models and start Misdirecting attacks on the remaining enemies. Would you enjoy her wrecking face AND living the whole game to trample over your opponents' desire for justice? If so, and if you do, the other side will hate you for it. It is not fun (or balanced) to have a  very murderous Master survive waves of onslaught. Leveticus can tell ya more about this
4. Shadow Emissary has been cuddled with Misaki and with Mei Feng, check out the latest FAQ if you are not acquainted
5. The size of your cache seems to depend on personal preferences in Misaki's case. I usually take her with her base 2 - makes triggering Risky Ventures that much easier, while at the same time preparing you to rely on flips rather then SS (which Misaki does, anyway).
6. You pick your crew composition based on what you want to achieve. If you take a Disguised Misaki and have her run schemes, you need to give her help. One very good, massive scheme runner (Dawn Serpent, Ama no Zako?) or two smaller ones. Shadow Effigy is certainly great here, if you are indeed going with the second option.
7. Oiran are mostly good for scheme running and when you lack better options, for 1-turn tar-pitting. Hidden Agenda is ideally found on a ranged model with 2+ height - to make sure you get the attack in and are seen before activating the Oiran. Which is usually early in the turn so that they have more triggers available from the cards in your hand. Oiran are at their best with Smoke and Shadows, but the upgrade for only one of them makes the Oiran rather expensive. Use this way only when fitting your playstyle and experience greatly!
8. If you take a killy Misaki (Bisento) you will charge and far outrun Hannah and Shang, thus pretty much nullifying their synergy with Misaki. They ought to be more solid with Disguised Misaki.
9. To sum up, I would change Bisento to Disguised for this set up and Smoke and Shadows for Wings of Wind. Also, rather then having 3 SS, I would run with bare 2 cache to proc Risky Ventures faster as I would expect Misaki to die faster anyways. Therefore, the 1 SS can be used for Recalled Training on Hannah or Sensei Yu (both are Hench-persons). Also the 2 SS should be enough as you are more defensive and survivable with Disguised, while Misaki is still killy with Recalled Training and Risky Ventures combined. Wings of Wind is there for more mobility for your (slower) crew, as well as to give Sensei Yu something new and fun to (0).
Finally, this is how I see things. I wonder how many people would suggest differently? It all comes down to playstyle and, with some masters that aren't quite autoplay (surprisingly Misaki is one of them) - practice! Good luck

[BigHammer]

If you want a tough, killy Misaki, the build you want is misdirection, untouchable and either stalking bisento or recalled training. Take the emissary and use aspect of the dragon, choosing dragons' scales each time. Take a healthy pool of stones (5 or 6), and you should have no issues surviving, since Misaki is almost always defensive and has damage reduction 1 (2 vs shooting) plus misdirection and stones to prevent damage. It's my favourite Misaki build by far, now, especially if you bring Shang and/or a low river style sensei Yu as well, to heal her.

[Rurouni Benshin]

Thanks a lot guys!  I'll be sure to keep this in mind the next time I play her!

[MrDeathTrout]

 

When I run Misaki she usually survives late into the game and does good damage against the enemy.  

My base build is exactly what you described Misaki with Stalking Bisento and Recalled training usually about 4 stones and, Sensei Yu with Wandering River Style.  Yu Stalks her target for her pushes her and gives her fast.  At that point she is usually within charge range of a target with 4 AP plus a 0 Action that can be used to attack.  My baseline strategy is to take 3 attacks against a target; the charge plus the 0 action, then GTFO.  Use Next Target to push 4" and use the last two actions to get back to safety and near Sensei Yu, so we can repeat next round.  I might not kill something every round with her, but I find this more usefully than charging her in killing something and dying early game.  Knowing what she can do and how far she can reach just the treat while she is still on the board can keep your opponent out of some areas.   I'm very opportunistic with her.  If I have Assassinate and I can get to their leader round one and kill them but lose Misaki I'll usually wait.  I have till round 4 to get full VPs for Assassinate.  I'll pick vulnerable models at the edges with Misaki, building activation control.  If you can get activation control such that you can activate Yu and Misakin after all their models then you've got a pretty free hand to be very aggressive and know she will at least survive until next round.

All that said I deviate from that plan at least once or twice a game.  I might be worth the risk to take out a key model to spend all five actions on attacks, even if it leaves her a exposed.  In those cases I'll often pop Recalled Training.  It might allow me to kill it fast enough to still get to some safety and if not Recalled Training work for Df and Wp flips as well.  If I have a somewhat isolate model I might go for 4 attacks before pushing out.  Not only do you need to balance getting her back to safety, but is it worth one more attack if it means she can't get back to Yu to get pushed and fast again for next round.

I'm also very aggressive when using stones for damage prevention and buffing Df flips to keep her alive.  Once I run out I get that + to Df from Risky Ventures so ++ on my Recalled Training round.

If I have killy strats and schemes I'll get more and more aggressive, taking more risks starting about turn 3.  Usually by that time I've eroded enough of the opponent that I'm ready to go after my true targets.  If killing doesn't get me any VPs I'm content to user her for board control; either killing anything that comes near my scheme runners or just acting as a deterrent in some cases.  If your opponent is too afraid to put anyone in the center for Turf War because Misiaki is poised to strike, so she sits there doing nothing that is a win, even if she kills nothing.  Let all of their models live if they're too scared to earn any VPs.  

Putting Blot the Sky on Yu and standing an archer (or 2) next to him can really help as well.  If Misaki wasn't able to finish someone off the end of round Blot the Sky attack can often help.  If your archer takes 1 Focus action during his activation they will have ++/++ (Reading the Wind) and sh7 (Yu's Master of the Wandering River Style) on anything within 12" regardless of LoS and engagement.  That's almost guaranteed 3-4 damage with a blast.  A sniper can fill a similar role if the terrain is better suited.

 

Edited November 12, 2015 by MrDeathTrout

[Yvarre]

Death Trout and others have the run of it.  She is quite capable of hit and run tactics that increase her longevity, whether getting three attacks then pulling out with the Stalking Bisento or, if staying more in the heart of the enemy lines, the disguised and misdirection way.  Don't underestimate deadly dance as a use for low cards, especially with disguise.  She can be very hard to even get a hit on when positioned right.

Recalled training is extremely effective if you go the all in Stalking bisento 5 attack route on a given turn, just make sure you can kill what you intend to kill and she isn't stranded to die if you still need to use her.  I will also agree that picking off smaller targets to get activation control and prevent opponent scheme running before going after the bigger ones is going to use her AP better and keep her around longer.

In our specific case, Ototo being a soulstone user with 12 wounds was a pretty risky first target without a way to force the assassinate trigger at least once to deplete my hand or cache, especially as he is HtK and Misaki has a min damage of 2.  As Ototo really wouldn't have been able to do all that much on the first turn anyway given the terrain, the austringers would have been better targets as they are quite capable at killing, forcing discards, and aiding in scheme running, and you would have had AP left over to retreat.  With the hounds and Austringers picked off, you would have had activation control to then deal with my bigger models.  McCabe (with Elixir and SMS) and Ototo are extremely resilient if they can activate after taking a beating.

Misaki is, as many sources put it, a melee scalpel, and knowing how an opponent's crew ticks is key to her target prioritization.  If the strat is likely to be a wash on turns 2 and 3- as turf war and extraction can be, first prevent the opponent from scheme running and take away weak support pieces.  That puts pressure on them to take models away from the strategy to score points, thus spreading themselves more thin for mobile attacks of opportunity.

 

[Rurouni Benshin]

Death Trout and others have the run of it.  She is quite capable of hit and run tactics that increase her longevity, whether getting three attacks then pulling out with the Stalking Bisento or, if staying more in the heart of the enemy lines, the disguised and misdirection way.  Don't underestimate deadly dance as a use for low cards, especially with disguise.  She can be very hard to even get a hit on when positioned right.

Recalled training is extremely effective if you go the all in Stalking bisento 5 attack route on a given turn, just make sure you can kill what you intend to kill and she isn't stranded to die if you still need to use her.  I will also agree that picking off smaller targets to get activation control and prevent opponent scheme running before going after the bigger ones is going to use her AP better and keep her around longer.

In our specific case, Ototo being a soulstone user with 12 wounds was a pretty risky first target without a way to force the assassinate trigger at least once to deplete my hand or cache, especially as he is HtK and Misaki has a min damage of 2.  As Ototo really wouldn't have been able to do all that much on the first turn anyway given the terrain, the austringers would have been better targets as they are quite capable at killing, forcing discards, and aiding in scheme running, and you would have had AP left over to retreat.  With the hounds and Austringers picked off, you would have had activation control to then deal with my bigger models.  McCabe (with Elixir and SMS) and Ototo are extremely resilient if they can activate after taking a beating.

Misaki is, as many sources put it, a melee scalpel, and knowing how an opponent's crew ticks is key to her target prioritization.  If the strat is likely to be a wash on turns 2 and 3- as turf war and extraction can be, first prevent the opponent from scheme running and take away weak support pieces.  That puts pressure on them to take models away from the strategy to score points, thus spreading themselves more thin for mobile attacks of opportunity.

 

Yeah, I should've gone after McCabe first.  Doubt I'd have killed him (twice, anyway), but decent chance of dismounting him first, and then follow up with the next turn.  I was banking on taking Ototo out on one turn, and it didn't work out for me at all.  I don't think I could've seen the Austringers from where I was at the moment, but I could've "Next Target" shifted if I had to.  Lesson well learned though.

[MrDeathTrout]

 Yeah, I should've gone after McCabe first.  Doubt I'd have killed him (twice, anyway), but decent chance of dismounting him first, and then follow up with the next turn.  I was banking on taking Ototo out on one turn, and it didn't work out for me at all.  I don't think I could've seen the Austringers from where I was at the moment, but I could've "Next Target" shifted if I had to.  Lesson well learned though. 

IMHO that is the trap a lot of Misaki player fall into. Kill the big hitter right off.  That often leads to you losing your big hitter (Misaki) right off.  Maybe that is the right play, every game is different, but I get more use out of her going the harassment route than the cruise missile route.

Based on the tiny bit of info I have about the game you guys are referencing, and admitting I could be completely wrong.  I would have either gone after the scheme runners first.  Misaki could kill 2 or 3 Guild Houns in a round assuming they were close enough to Next Target between and with Yu you can Stalk 2 of them.  Then once you have activation control focus on the heavy hitters.  Or if wanted to go for the big guys first I would shoot in on McCabe dismount him, you could probably do that in 3 attacks and GTFO.  Next round shoot in and finish him off.  Your opponent may pull him back to safety but if McCabe is focused on survival he's less effective at everything else.  If I decided to go for Ototo first I do pretty much the same thing, he'd be hard to finish off in one go.  You could end up engaged with an Enraged Ototo (ouch!).  Shoot in do some damage and GTFO, next round finish him off.  If Ototo is pulled back to safety he's even less effective than McCabe would be.  He could enentually heal up, but hopefully you've got a VP advantage built up by then and you can do the same thing again.

I've learned that the threat of Misaki can be just as effective as killing things.  If she is dead she is not threat.  A half dead Ototo, a half dead McCabe and some guild hounds all know they will die if they get anywhere near her.  Depending on your strats and schemes that might be just as good and killing them off.

Edited November 12, 2015 by MrDeathTrout

[Rurouni Benshin]

You hit it on the nose, Deathtrout.  I had no hand when I charged Ototo, so that certainly contributed to losing Misaki early.  Making Ototo enraged without killing him off was what ended doing Misaki in that turn.  Hasty decision on my part, but this is why I'm asking for advice.

Again, thank you all for all the feedback.  I'm looking forward to giving Misaki another try soon.

[Bumpasses]

Admittedly I only skimmed, but I dont see anyone having Misaki casting Downburst on herself for free crew pushes.

I usually only do it turn one, but twice, gets my team halfway up the board for line and other marker based schemes...also freaks the opponent a bit.

Its a tac-ac so she can target herself, but based on the rules forum post I made she does not bennie from the trigger.

with wings or Sensei she doesn't really lose position by giving up 2 ap to do it twice on turn 1.

 

 

-Bump

[MrDeathTrout]

Admittedly I only skimmed, but I dont see anyone having Misaki casting Downburst on herself for free crew pushes.

I usually only do it turn one, but twice, gets my team halfway up the board for line and other marker based schemes...also freaks the opponent a bit.

Its a tac-ac so she can target herself, but based on the rules forum post I made she does not bennie from the trigger.

with wings or Sensei she doesn't really lose position by giving up 2 ap to do it twice on turn 1.

 

 

-Bump

Thank you Bump,

I've played Misaki quite a bit and have never found a use for Downburst other than the occasional odd situation.  I can see using this quite a bit.  Especially with Sensei Yu in the crew.  Misaki can push Yu (and others up the board) then Yu pushes Misaki and makes her Fast.  I like it.

 

Edited November 19, 2015 by MrDeathTrout

[BigHammer]

I've tried using Downburst like that, but found that it really doesn't work all that well; you need a lot of low cards in order to move all the models you want to, the distance you push is restricted, and the direction is "away from", so you scatter your models to the winds a fair amount, and have to rely on there being no blocking terrain to get much out of it.

IMO, Misaki's AP are much better spent. Downburst has extremely occasional use as an offensive ability, but I tend to just ignore it and Deadly Dance on her card for the most part. I spend all of my Misaki's AP on charges, Bisento and Thunder attacks, and Defensive Stance actions these days.

[Bumpasses]

I've tried using Downburst like that, but found that it really doesn't work all that well; you need a lot of low cards in order to move all the models you want to, the distance you push is restricted, and the direction is "away from", so you scatter your models to the winds a fair amount, and have to rely on there being no blocking terrain to get much out of it.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Bumpasses
...

[Bumpasses]

I find myself stacking my doods in a bubble around Misaki.

I choose a deployment spot based on how far I want some models to go and what schemes/strat im trying to get a lead on turn 1.

Sure, the second Downburst doesn't cover all my doods, but It always covers Izamu/Ototo whom I usually drop directly in front of her.

I put my flankers/scheme runners on the sides with my shooters "and the rest" betwikst them and the former.

I also never seem to be in a shortage of low cards first and second hand so can mostly cheat low if I need to.

I really never not do it as even if it only gives a few of my doods pushes its free movement and messes with my opponents in a way that I really appreciate.

It also sets Misaki up for counter charges just behind my front line which is typically how I like to use her early on.

 

-Bump

 

 

[Bumpasses]

dunno what happen up there ^^

too early to quote someone I guess.

 

-b