scion of the void (spoilerish)

[izikial]

Hi Guys, I'm a big Tara fan and realy got exited about the scion, but I'm struggling to see its power outside of gimmicks, the only real use being removing what Tara give fast to to give herself more ap, the rest of her kit seems super niche,

 

 

has anyone got her on the table yet, have you had good results?

[Duront]

I have used it a couple times (I really like Tara and want to make it work) but I can't see the worth in it. I have only tested it with Tara so maybe its just bad with her, which is terrible if true. The problem is that it adds more moving turn activation sensitive clockwork pieces to taras game when you already have to worry about at least two different beginning and ending triggers and different ways people are going to drop out of the void.

You could try to do a list focused around cheap minions that use the attack from Scion and then using void wretches to heal him. This could be done with any master and would require some particular timing to get right. Although I don't even know if it would be worth the effort, the attack is good and the card draw is always helpful but its alot of moving parts that can be kicked and you can only do two attacks before you have to heal. If you have tara you can rip him out easier but otherwise you have to make sure someone uses the (0) to unbury otherwise you lose him and remember using that action causes 2 damage so he needs to have 4 wounds left to survive.

I am sure that there is someone to use her, I just don't see it.

[Slapdrone]

I play Tara a lot.  I was excited she was getting her own henchman.  Used the scion all through the beta and even started a campaign with her to try to figure out the best use.  After all that I don't feel she's worth it.  I'd rather use Hannah for outcasts or Anna for ressers and both if I can afford it.  At first the scion's abilities looked interesting, but in play they seemed too situational for just getting things done.  I felt like I had to look too hard to made good use of her.  The blink seemed good, but I'd never have a model in the right place.  A straight up bury or unbury would be great.  I get more use and more fun out of the emissary with Tara's 0 upgrade.  Maybe I'll give her a try again when the model comes out.

[izikial]

I could possibly get some use out of her with Levi. It would mean taking a stationary void wretch (witch is my main problem with her, the hidden cost you have to pay in the form of a void wretch).

you basicly have a super mobile anchor for levi a waif in the middle of no were, Waif then unburys scion and tadar you have an anchor, also lets waifs have some bite or mobility.

 

to that end Hamlin may benifit having high damage rats where ever you need them sounds usefull. Once again you will pay the stealth tax of a wretch though.

[Duront]

Peons can't take his attacks, so no void rats.

[izikial]

Peons can't take his attacks, so no void rats.

noooooo, ok that's a pooper. Was also thinking about using her to quickly and cheaply unburry karina's summons, but with the half wds and doing 3 damage would probably kill then

 

[Sackville]

Was also thinking about using her to quickly and cheaply unburry karina's summons, but with the half wds and doing 3 damage would probably kill then

Maybe if you were summoning Drowned? You'd basically give an arbitrary model a "(0) Place a scheme marker within 60mm" action. Hiring the Scion plus a Void Wretch and spending Karina's summoning action all for that does seem a bit extreme though.

[Khyodee]

I've played six or so games with the scion and she does have her uses, but what she seems good at, which is her burying gimicks, isn't actually what she is good at. What she does is a few different things, 1) She has a built in trigger to draw a card on her attack, this gives you more chances to summon with Karina. 2) She is actually best used as a scheme runner actually. You run something up the board and plop her out and then run her up (with possible fast). This works really well with entourage as well and is an auto take if that is in the pool. She can also "port" another scheme runner with her with the unbury (0) action after you either ping it with faces of the void or bury it through another means.

I've yet to really test out doing the 4 damage on bury trigger, but I plan on trying it out soon with a crew built for it. Also don't forget her ranged attack if setup right makes it min 3 damage at range, which I have used a couple times.

What she doesn't do very well is hit hard. People see that damage track and want to use her as an offensive model, but the spread is to great to make it really effective and she doesn't have enough AP to be doing multiple focused attacks (just take bishop or nothing beast if you want that). So she has some interesting tricks, but she is by no means an auto take.

[Khyodee]

Maybe if you were summoning Drowned? You'd basically give an arbitrary model a "(0) Place a scheme marker within 60mm" action. Hiring the Scion plus a Void Wretch and spending Karina's summoning action all for that does seem a bit extreme though.

Actually that would work really well if your using the scion as your scheme runner...a sort (0) place a scheme marker action.

[izikial]

can you get enough use out of the drowned when its summond by Karina to make it worth the summon in the first place?

I have been looking at a death marshal bury build, give people fast to lower there wp and give you more ap, then (while scion is burryed)use the marshal to do the scions attack and give the dmg when burryed trigger then bury them.

wretches can then finish of the burryed target or just let them stay in limbo, with the -2 wp from fast the av wp will be 4 making it quite likely, and if possible you can try and give -fill on wp with the nothing

[Freman]

I think Drowned have finish the job, so if you pop them out and they die you still get a scheme marker.

[SpiralngCadavr]

A little threadomancy... I've been playing the scion a little, and really want to like her (partially 'cause I love the illustration), but... IDK.  I'm not really feeling it. When Tara's humming and everything's going well, she does pretty well (but most anything is pretty useful if you're in a good position), but if you're not in a strong position, I feel the Scion is pretty lackluster. I've only been taking her to keep trying to get her to run right and not because I think she adds much of value... Is anyone feeling like she's even an above-average compliment to a Tara force?

Edited October 28, 2015 by SpiralngCadavr

[Duront]

I stopped trying to make it work. It takes way too much work for so little return and there are vastly better options for tara.

[Khyodee]

I'm on the other end and I love the model in the right situations. Its my number 1 Bodyguard and Entourage model which it can do so easily. Its also an auto take if Murder Prodege is in pool as I will make it my highest cost model. Its great at absorbing alpha strikes and blocking charges since you can just bury it when they attack then the rest of the crew becomes more deadly. It can be quite fun when a beater thinks he is safe "tying" up a trapper who then I Pay Better focuses and punches for 7 damage (ditto for Karina though she will have to use ap to focus). 

It can also hit hard if you need it to by blinking, focusing, and then punching (though I wouldn't plan on this being its main use). 

[SpiralngCadavr]

Hmm, I like the melee trick as a way of punishing someone for the engagement. What sort of build is the minimum combo you're getting good mileage out of, since it sounds like you're focusing on the bury tricks?

[Frisch]

While I agree she seems very hard to get to work I can see one thing working heavily in her favour; In games with Karina her soon-to-be buried summons will stop both Karina from summoning more and Tara from burying models. 
The Scion does help mitigate this.

[SpiralngCadavr]

...except Tara's usually activating first so has the opportunity to unbury. And the Scion has to be unburied so may compete for AP and/or cards, or that at least isn't guaranteed to make it less expensive. And I never had any trouble dealing with that mechanic before the Scion came in.

Right now, it seems like it's 8 points for some insurance and being difficult to pin down (not counting the hoops you need to jump through to get strong mileage out of it). Maybe that's good? IDK, that seems fairly expensive for what it's accomplishing since usually for 8 points I'm looking for something that does heavy lifting, and I can get...

...a pair of wretches for the same cost

...an upgrade and a death marshal for around the same cost

...karina and a wretch for 1 ss more

...a vast number of more threatening things for 2ss more

all of which seem more efficient use of ss

[Khyodee]

My scion crew would be something like.

Tara

+I Pay Better

+Knowledge of Eternity

+Obliteration Symbiote 

Scion of The Void

2x Trapper

Johan

Karina

Which leaves 14 points of play for whatever you need for schemes/strat.

The more I play the more I think having Tara always go first is a bit of a trap since it limits your options (for example you can't ping models for fast unless you get something buried and burying models early can backfire against smart opponents). I actually spend more time giving out fast and slow to models with Tara. I only use bury tricks if I am going to chain activate it (when I need to reposition Johan for a charge for example). The scion is often a charge lane blocker, tying up models, or drawing cards with attacks until I can position it for scheme running. I often take a means to heal it as well if doing bodyguard,entourage, or denying murder prod.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Khyodee

[SpiralngCadavr]

Hmm, how do you get use out of it without a healing method if you're using it with the aforementioned bury shenanigans?

Edited October 31, 2015 by SpiralngCadavr

[Khyodee]

Well I'll bring a heal method in either the librarian or a void wretch typically.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yes, but what about those atypical lists you mentioned where you take the scion without a healer? Because I think it's a decent price at 8 points, not great, but certainly isn't worth a 12-15-point block to me. I mean, it's not like I'm not sometimes taking a librarian or wretch anyway, but it seems pretty reliant on them if you're getting much mileage out of its tricks.

[Khyodee]

I may have mis-typed. If I'm planning on actually having other models do focused attacks then I will bring healing, but if the plan is to just use the scion are a scheme runner then you can get away without healing it as it "should" be able to avoid most damage other then taking damage from being unburied a couple times.

[Mikey_C]

I used the Scion a lot in the beta, but have taken a break from Tara since then to mess around with resser stuff.

I found this list worked in pretty much all of my games with Tara.

Tara - Knowledge of Eternity, Eternal Journey, Dead of winter
Scion - Scramble
Karina - Summoning upgrade

Nothing Beast -Void Shield

2x death Marshal

2x void wretch

 

It let me play a pretty aggressive bury game with Tara. Knowledge of Eternity is used to ping things near Tara with fast and a damage, Dead of winter makes the bury test at -2 (essentially a TN 15).  Eternal Journey gives Tara and escape method if things go wrong.

The Scion can unbury any of Karina's summons and hit enemies with his nasty 3 damage if buried condition. 

Death marshals preform a mix of duties. Burying (friendlies and enemies) and running schemes.

Void wretches Run schemes and heal. 
Karina finds a nice spot in cover and shoots or summons.

My 2¢.