Whut Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Even if they don't give her anything synergistically, if they work well with her don't they... well... work well with her? I don't understand this. Just because Howard Langston doesn't give Ramos anything synergistically, doesn't mean he isn't a great choice, because Ramos gives Howard plenty of advantages. Same thing here, Gunsmiths don't give Kaeris anything, but Kaeris gives them plenty by spreading fire. Now if only I cold convince myself to take them but I have such trouble committing to taking more than two 7 ss models for some reason xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 My reasoning is the Hard Way vs Switching Chamber are both zero actions and I know which I rather do, Switching Chamber which means they do not care about burning but I am adding a suit of a discarded card to there attack all the time so they are always cursed or experimental or piercing which I like more than a positive 2 flip vs models with burning. The original question was would I recommend the plastic box or not and do I think she needs Gunsmiths. Those questions are about the better purchase and the necessity/use of a model for the master not the other way around. Gunsmiths are great, I have said as much multiple times but Kaeris does not need them nor for how I play them gives them much. The few times I have used Kaeris I tended not to bring Gunsmiths but Firestarter was their and so was her totem. The rest of the crew was mostly minion constructs. I think that Firestarter and her totem out way the purchase of gunsmiths for her currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 My reasoning is the Hard Way vs Switching Chamber are both zero actions and I know which I rather do, Switching Chamber which means they do not care about burning but I am adding a suit of a discarded card to there attack all the time so they are always cursed or experimental or piercing which I like more than a positive 2 flip vs models with burning. The counterpoint to this is that The Hard Way can be used defensively. Just for taking that (0) action, your Gunsmith gets the equivalent of a free (2) Defensive action, without discarding a card, against anyone who's Burning. If you're trying to take down a target with some kind of special defenses that isn't in cover, and you have a card of the appropriate suit to throw, then Switching Chambers is obviously a better option. In basically any other situation, The Hard Way is the better option because it becomes more powerful the more people you set on fire, and you have a lot of ways to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The counterpoint to this is that The Hard Way can be used defensively. Just for taking that (0) action, your Gunsmith gets the equivalent of a free (2) Defensive action, without discarding a card, against anyone who's Burning. If you're trying to take down a target with some kind of special defenses that isn't in cover, and you have a card of the appropriate suit to throw, then Switching Chambers is obviously a better option. In basically any other situation, The Hard Way is the better option because it becomes more powerful the more people you set on fire, and you have a lot of ways to do that. Though that means you need a capable model to hand out burning, like Karies or Firestarter as I find Fire Gamin not as good at handing out burning in some situations (I still love the guys). I am not a fan of the hard way for various reasons. 1 it locks an activation sequence: model X goes and then the gunsmith, I hate feeling like my activations sequences are set after first turn and to get max us you will also want this early in the turn. 2 I do not tend to spread out damage but instead kill 1-2 models a turn, such as Izamu and the Dead Rider on turn 2 or Gracy on turn 1, I rather hack of a limb the injure everything. 3 The fact I can say no matter the card I will have this trigger is really good for my play style and I am not scared to charge into my enemy with the gunsmith to avoid cover. I am a fan of Firestarter as he can get 3 actions a turn, flys, has a good df, and can hand out or enhance burning. I also am a fan of the Eternal Flame as it can heal constructs or Kaeris and cause burning models to resolve the burning condition. So this is a big thing for 2 reason, as you are resolving the burning condition it benefits from Covered in Gas that Firestarter can hand out and it also can be done to your models near a Purifying Flame Kaeris to heal friendly models. My Kaeris tends to focus on models that have no plastics yet, such as Soulstone Miner and Large Arachnids (I want their plastic because the metal model is a pain). Of models that are out in plastic I like Mei’s crew Railworkers, Willy and Metal Gamin. Mages also look good for range base crews and I do not think you can go wrong with buying a big MI model, I like Howard or Joss. I feel arcane effigy deserves a mention because it lets Immolate on Kaeris cause burning. The only reason I do not use the Rail Golem is because in my opinion it looks ugly. A funny notes: Eternal Flame does not let the Rail Golem suffer fire damage because he is not immune but rather never resolves the condition and Railworkers Shovel Faster action is a nice way to hurt a Rail Golem as it causes damage equal to your burning condition. The Shovel Faster action does not benefit form Covered in Gas condition. Depending on your crew make up Powered By Flame and Bleeding Edge Tech are both good upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joediamond Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The counterpoint to this is that The Hard Way can be used defensively. Just for taking that (0) action, your Gunsmith gets the equivalent of a free (2) Defensive action, without discarding a card, against anyone who's Burning. Oh my...I haven't been reading the card properly. I thought it was just Attack duels. Good catch, Kadeton! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Unless you're looking for something very specific, the hard way will generally be a better choice than switching chambers. Kaeris/malifaux child/firestarter burning is also an opportunity for the gunsmiths to resist and gain fast without taking damage (on two gunsmiths with the right trigger!), Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Kaeris/malifaux child/firestarter burning is also an opportunity for the gunsmiths to resist and gain fast without taking damage (on two gunsmiths with the right trigger!),This is always what bothers me the most. Either you have to play the duel normally and cheat a low Ram (cause you also want the burning for grab and drop, right?), taking 1 low ram card from your hand per Gunsmith. You can never guarantee getting that. Or if you hope to flip the right card, you will often either be not getting the fast, or not be getting the burning (and thus flight and free scheme marker) if you flip a high ram. And are you going to want to cheat a high ram from your hand just for fast, instead of saving it for next turn? No way! I've been on the fence about gunsmiths constantly and this has been probably one of the two primary reasons (the other being no Moderate Damage 4 without a trigger) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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