Three Master Fixed List Tournament Format Discussion

[SpectreEliteGaming]

I heard a little talk about this format being played by the brits over the pond in britland and it immediately appealed to me in a big way. I am not a player who thinks in terms of factions - I just kind of have an interest in playing only very specific masters and don't have an interest in branching out too far mostly because I try to play only the more powerful masters and because I spend most of my time hobbying if I can.

Lets break down this silly notion of "factions." If you could take three masters regardless of faction, to a tourney (with a fixed list per master) - what would your lists look like? It doesn't have to be a full breakdown - just a general idea. I'm wondering where everyone's head is at in this regard. In other words, top three overall! (but, you know - ones that compliment each other well, or what have you).

I would take a heavy summoning levy (mech rider, a&d, ryle) list, a generic austriger/frank perdita list, and a super schemey oriented colette list (mech and cassandra blah blah blah) likely. I would tailor it more specifically if I knew what the flop was beforehand, but that is the generic framework that I would build off of likely.

Basically, I'd fill all my gaps using filth.

Has anyone been in a tournament like this before or has any suggestions or baller lists they've concocted? I would love to play in a tournament with a format like this in the future.

Also, if you give no shits about suggesting lists - how fo you feel about a format like this, personally? Like I said before - screw factions, I wish I could take whatever I want (no wonder levy is my main :/ ).

Thanks for your input.

[Patzer]

My list would be Leveticus, Lilith/Jack Daw, and Pandora/McCabe (TT). Mainly because they are my favourite masters, and they are pretty well-rounded with some niche strength.

 

In this format, I don't really see the need for it to be three fixed masters. It could rather be a free for all. As long as you announce faction before the game. In a fixed match-up list, the opponent will more or less know what you will play. This might be the case in old fashion play too, since many players only bring one master to a tournament, 1-2, or they just have a reputation of playing that master in that and that particular strategy. Nevertheless, if a format allows for cross faction master picking, why not ditch the restriction throughout? At least for the sight of some lunatic brings all the models across all the factions to a tournament. 

 

I wouldn't be against such a format, but I like the fixed faction rules.

[Joel]

Its not a common format over here, but was used for the 2012 UK masters event, which was 1st edition. One feature of that event which was a minimum of 5 rounds, was that every list had to be used at least once.

If it was to be used again, I'd go with

Lilith

Pandora

McCabe

McCabe would be a speed list

Pandora would be super-Killy

The Lilith list would be an all-purpose list to be used in most games.

[papa smurf]

I think the format would be here are the schemes and strategies. Pick what ever you want to play. Not fixed faction or master But fixed collection lol.

This format would heavily favor collectors who have a large pool to pick from more than just the guy who owns some guild.

Also your description of filth is confusing. What is considered filth. I personally think there is a counter to everyhing. And this game is balanced.

Mech rider for instance might be good But in no way is filth. It can be stopped or ignored.

[SpectreEliteGaming]

A lot of the talk of balance comes from heavy meta influence and a low amount of playtesting. Every game can be broken - it just takes a little time to figure it out.

If you think that every master or model in this game is truly balanced with the other models then you are certainly mistaken. There are always better/worse masters or better/worse models for their cost point (and there's nothing wrong with that). No game is perfect and there are always exploits waiting to be abused. >8)

Pretty sure that pound for pound/in general/overall (whatever you want to call it) mech rider is the best model in the game - regardless of whether its cheese or not - its still not what I woild consider a balanced model (but it shouldn't have to be, neccesarly).

The more players a game has the more everything gets narrowed down into more concise power lists (ie. net-decking/net-listing). Given the different strategies your lists will change but you will start seeing crew schematics that are standardized (ie. frank and deuce austringer list).

Hence the idea of having 3 fixed lists - just wondering where everyone's head is at. I definently expected Lilith to be a popular choice.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The format has as much merit as any other. Not my cup of tea though and I would never play in one. Faction identity is a very big reason of why I play miniatures games and being able to just jump around between factions would make the game exceptionally unenjoyable for me.

[The Zinc Lich]

The problem with having fixed lists like this is you seriously limit what is viable to play. I mean, you say it yourself: you pick your top three masters to try and beat everyone else's set of three masters. When you have a pool so large to choose from, only the top percent of content in the game sees the table. We already see that kind of thing over in Warmachine and Hordes tournaments, where they added tournament regulations like Divide and Conquer to try and encourage more variety. ¹  In fact, by removing the faction divide, you make the issue even more prevalent. You can pick a spread of masters with perfect points in differing areas, covering every weakness you have. At least in individual factions, where you only have seven options to choose from, you may need to win by using less powerful tools more skillfully. Whether or not that is a problem, I suppose, is a matter of opinion. It does lower the cost of entry to whatever top-3 masters you are playing, and it makes discussions about the real, tangible power of each master more practical, but at the cost of limiting the scope of what you are discussing. Not for sure if I'd want to play it, but I'd be interested in some good discussion on it.

 

I think you are pretty much absolutely spot on about the "top three". In that kind of environment, I'd put Sonnia in my rotation, as she is definitely the master that I feel most comfortable putting up against Leveticus. Counterspell Aura does so much to hinder Leveticus' ability to hurt Sonnia and the people immediately around her. ² Assuming she doesn't let him charge her for a Death Touch (which is still super threatening, because Levi is awesome) the cost of Soulstones to attack her is pretty prohibitive, especially if you are rolling on a low cache. Grounded Magic is incredibly bad for Leveticus' damage output; he doesn't have a great minimum damage, but can fairly easily get to a Neutral flip on damage and he could drop a high card from his hand to fill in. I don't think I've heard of a Leveticus crew bringing condition removal, as Leveticus typically doesn't have to worry about it, so he has to nuke his hand to try and cast and has to deal with a tome requirement on his main moneymaker. The Guild All Stars list is Francisco, Austringers, and Witchlings, so she should fit right in with all the power pieces. She's perfectly fine hunting waifs and the Mech Rider has neither immunity to blast damage nor burning.

 

Stacked on top of that, I'm very comfortable dropping Sonnia into pretty much any problem on the Resserectionist platform, assuming we still hire crews by faction. The prevalence of lure, strong Ca actions, limited condition removal, no real special resistance to blasting. Colette certainly doesn't like the matchup, as she is allergic to blast damage, and Witchling Stalkers are very hard to remove without them lighting you up for Sonnia. Leveticus is just too good to not take against an enemy set that doesn't have a good answer for him, and Perdita is in there to check high-tuned assassin lists that could threaten Sonnia or the Waifs. I suppose that it a pretty kill-focused set, but Levi and Sonnia will be churning out minions as a byproduct of smashing face, so it isn't like they can't be decent VP hunters. I don't know, I guess I would be interested in seeing what everything shook out to be.

 

¹: Divide and Conquer, or DNC, is listed with a number. That number represents how many times you must use a given leader in a tournament. This can lead to a "list lock", where you must play a list in a given situation, even if you know it is disadvantaged, to satisfy DNC requirements. The idea is to prevent people from simply playing the single best list in the game over and over again.

 

²: Unmaking is one of the most useful attacking spells in the game, and its ability to consistently remove pieces from your crew is one of the biggest tools Leveticus has. If he has to stone for a tome to hit a model three times in four, he can't stone for Unnatural Wasting or Desolate Warping, which is really what he would rather be spending his cache for.