Combat HouseRule System/Analysis

[Mister Shine]

So, Fated combat power level comes up a lot in this system. I still maintain you've got to be doing more story less punchy for this system to work, don't let your Fated ignore their giant block of skills they COULD be leveling in favour of just mashing {Attack Skill} until its maxed. But, even so, Fated are going to be getting really strong, really fast.

 

WIth that in mind, I looked at what I thought the main issue was:  A combat focused character is going to have lets say about +7 to {Main Attack Skill}.  With an average Df of somewhere around 10 or 11, Mister Punchbags requires only a 3 or 4 to connect and a 9 or 10 to start getting degrees of success in. With a combat minded Fated grabbing weapons with high minimum damage we're already seeing a problem.
Add to that a number of positive flips and Fated are never going to miss.

 

So we see our main problem. But there are some problems that come up with solutions too.

1) We want to maintain the core of the game. I really like TtB for its focus on flat numbers and easy math for the FM and letting the Fated do the math because Players LIKE calculating up their big hit. Don't want to change the system so I have to start adding math in for myself, yuck. Also shouldn't make the players learn anything new outside their book. This is FM stuff only.

2) Not everyone is combat focused. The example above shows how Punchbags is built, but someone in the party could just as easily make Prof Booknerdington. Booknerdington takes a revolver at the FM's recommendation so he can defend himself, but he's only got +2 to his skill and no positives. We have to make combat more challenging for Punchbags, but not impossible for Booknerdington.

3) We can't just punish Punchbags. Punchbags isn't a worse character than Booknerdington. They should both feel powerful and both deserve to have fun. Obstacles in combat should surmountable and ideally have a sense of accomplishment for the combat characters.

 

With that in mind, the solution I've been testing out with my group is an Archetype buff system to my combat encounters. It stems from the idea of monster pursuits and works as a general buff applied while the Archetype mob is still alive. This automatically resolves certain issues outline above, as the (player perceived) negatives can be removed by killing the Archetype.  A side benefit is directing combat a little more so you can have immediate threats in an Archetype boss OR multiple threats in having an Enforcer with Archetype minions with him.  I'll list what I've been working with below - Name, Desciptors to Players and a Design Description below that:

 

 

Guardian - to attack flips against other friendly targets.

I generally describe the Archetype as calling out warning to other friendlies or physically shoving them out of the way of Fated attacks.

 

Nice and basic. Stacking a few of these can really start hampering the Fated. Can be used on multiple small models to make them more threatening or on a BigGuy to protect his minions somewhat. I play around with the active effect area a bit depending who has it. If I had to nail down a number... within 3 yards? Prof B can handle Guardians, while Mister P can attack protected models directly, if at a penalty.

 

 

Despot - :-fate  to attack flips against the Archetype while another friendly is within 3yrds.

Similar to the above, but I generally describe the Archetype as yanking its minions in front of itself or kicking them into the line of fire.

 

The Despot still gives Booknerdington the normal mobs to hit but severely hinders a Punchbags trying to get him directly. Optionally you can have misses against the Despot do 1 wound to the nearest minion for flavour.

 

 

Hexer/Overseer - Other friendlies are treated as one/two ranks higher.

Hexers get descriptions of their presence making the Fated feel weighted and the enemies they seem appear stronger than they normally would. Throw in some hexy flash like hex bags, voodoo dolls or floating purple runes to make it as obvious as you like who's doing it. Non-magically you can do Overseers who wrangle the other friendlies, barking orders but still with the key phrase "enemies appear stronger than they normally would"

 

A rank bonus moves the AV/Df gap to 5/6 and a double increase moves that to 7/8. I really like throwing Hexers and Overseers into combat. It still follows nicely into Rule #1 as well, because we arent giving the mobs a bonus, we are changing their rank, a calculation I do anyway. Also makes them hit a bit harder so be aware. "Other friendly" still lets Prof B hit the Archetype itself, since it doesnt benefit from its own abilities. Once its dead combat is going to swing real hard the other way, so even a beat-up party can pull through.

 

 

Noxious - When activating in LoS/Within X of this Archetype pass a TN[9-12] Centering Duel or treat   as   and visa versa

Described as a fetid aura surrounding the Archetype that seems to affect those with greater focus as they try to resist it. Can be described as Whiskey Vapours with a Carousing challenge or any number of other ways too to fit into your story.

 

I was a bit worried with this one that it would seem a bit much like punishing the Punchbags players for having on their flips, but the very first thing one of my Fated did once figuring out the condition was throw his knuckleduster to the ground and drunkely belch "Brinsh It On -hick-" soooo, worth it right there. There's a number of way around this one depending how you set it up, and you can look at Brewmaster for how to set up this style of encounter as well, since that test applies to everyone, not just Fated. I wouldnt overuse this one, but it can make for an interesting encounter or encounter set if you want it to be a theme for an area.

 

 

Abominable - After attacking the Abominable, generate a moderate critical effect for each in the attack flip

I always make sure to telegraph this one, mention how looking at the monster turns your stomach, the harder you focus the worse the effect. I tend to telegraph with focus a lot for things that punish flips.

 

Players balked a bit at this one, but quickly realized that half of them were wearing full protective gear so the first flip didnt do anything anyway and they couldnt DIE from the effects as it was virtually impossible to generate a 15. And again, if you figure out the trick you can work around it. I think the   punishment should be used sparingly , but its another tool in the arsenal.

 

 

Eldritch - All friendlies attack on Wp instead of Df

Describe the attacks as revolting in an otherworldly way, the nature of the Eldritch Archetype being there making the Fated require more mental fortitude than physical to withstand the attacks

 

Fated forget about wp. This is a min-maxer punishment, pure and simple. The high Df bruise machine might think twice about getting up in people's faces when he's only dodging with a 10+ instead of a 4+

 

 

Spirit/Weak Point - Fated only use their skill, not attributes when determining AV against the Archetype

I usually describe this one as either a ghostly apparition that only skillful hits seem to affect, the force of the blow carrying through the spirit or for boss types that they are a mountain of muscle/armor/chitin with only a few visible weak points, the vast majority of the Fated's attacks rebounding off of them

 

Maybe a bit intense on the ease-of-play side, but most everyone I play with has their main attack skill as their first one, so just use that number instead of the AV number you normally have. Easy peasy. Calculation-wise this drops Punchbags down a solid 3 or 4 points, but generally leave Booknerdington completely alone as he wasnt going for prime stats anyway, just tossing a couple skill points into whatever attack they fancied. I tend to use this one for creating more difficult encounters with a single opponent that I want everyone to feel like they are doing something to. I dont think the party really notices how unequal the penalty is because it SOUNDS the same to both Prof Bs and Mister Ps but only really cuts the Punchbags down a lot.

 

 

 

Anyway, thats what I've been working with so far, I'll add more as I think of them. Let me know what you all think and any experiences you have using them should you decide to try em!

[011121]

out of curiosity how are you seeing these characters built?  In my game (which we just started) the main melee character has a def of 2 and an AV of +2 with his weapon.  He has resilience so high wounds but he's nowhere near the +10 def +7 AV you mention.  Maybe I'm missing something but it seems like people are talking about have vastly more powerful characters than what I've seen so far.

[Mister Shine]

Not +10 Df, the card required to to dodge a hit being a 10 over a 4 or something.

 

As for building your attack:

 

2 or a 3 in skill from character creation, 2 or a 3 in relevant aspect gets you a +4-6 starting AV on your attack from creation. Usually +5 as most people can spare a +2 in an aspect then bump it to +3 with "Step 8: Modify" and then have a 2 pointer skill somewhere during creation. 3 sessions in you'll have the xp to bump {Attack Skill} to 3 and have a god chance at completing a Destiny step to push your Aspect to 4 by then too. That'll give you +7 to your main attack's AV.

 

That's a min max example, but its easy enough to do if have someone who wants to be REALLY good at shooting, and since lotsa people are coming out of D&D or Pathfinder, lots of people are prioritizing combat ability.

[Omenbringer]

I think the min/maxing for TtB also comes a bit from an expectation that it will be like the Malifaux TTG.

[zeeblee]

I think another key component that a lot of people miss out on/forget/at least don't mention:  terrain.  I'm also rather guilty of not including things like hazardous terrain all that often, but it's another huge tool to make combats more difficult.

 

You're also right that a lot of people forget about Willpower, but I think that trick really only works once on a group of players.  It definitely worked when I almost killed them with an Insidious Madness and Sorrow ambush (just two minions!)

 

The critical on strike is a cool idea.  I always want to get more criticals onto the party to make damage matter, and that could be a way to go.  Though I'm curious about more fluff explanation for how it works.  Why does it only work on the skilled/focused?

[Mister Shine]

I always see the as being more focused on the task at hand. So if you have a :+fate   to your melee, you are concentrating on nothing but that punch and the target of your punch. Which, if you borrow from Cthulhu mythos, is a very bad idea. The more you focus on something wrong like an abomination, the more it works into your mind, the sicker it makes you.

 

I mean, flavour this stuff however you like (I do consistency as much as I can within a campaign so there are established world rules) but the general idea is that the revulsion a normal person feels from seeing human limbs attached to a dog that barks viscera is worse for the person trying to look for a weak point in a scope than a person blind firing over a fence

[Malsqueek]

Those are some pretty slick templates. Gonna just put those right over here in my toolkit next to the exploding pig cart race.

[sephiroa]

mister shine, you are 1 superb guy!

 

i'm gonna use these in my next session. i have a guy in my party who always focusses and has a    at least to every shot he makes.