Quick Fated Collodi Strings of Fate Question.

[enderwiggin]

Alright, simple enough thing that I was thinking of the other day.

 

Collodi can pass out a condition from his own activations, normally I would just use Focus but for defensive times I was thinking of the Armor he can gain. Wooden claws grants armor, but armor stacks...

So the question is does Collodi consider the armor condition he can pass out to his puppets/minions before or after seeing how much is there?

 

 

(Tl;dr Can I use Fated and Strings of Fate to toss Armor +4 out to my crew?)

[asrian]

Yes you can. As it's a +1 condition it stacks, so if you want to use all of Collodi's AP to just hand out armor you could. I personally wouldn't, as I find that between the Brutal Effigy and just handing out Armor +1 my guys are beefy enough to survive/heal most things fighting them. 

A side trick you can do: Last activation Turn 1 - Collodi goes Defensive Stance, handing it out to everyone. Top of Turn 2 - Collodi activates and passes out Armor +1. Now everyone, until they activate, has both Defense and Armor +1. It helps against those early first encounters on Turn 2.

[Myyrä]

Yes you can. As it's a +1 condition it stacks, so if you want to use all of Collodi's AP to just hand out armor you could. I personally wouldn't, as I find that between the Brutal Effigy and just handing out Armor +1 my guys are beefy enough to survive/heal most things fighting them. 

A side trick you can do: Last activation Turn 1 - Collodi goes Defensive Stance, handing it out to everyone. Top of Turn 2 - Collodi activates and passes out Armor +1. Now everyone, until they activate, has both Defense and Armor +1. It helps against those early first encounters on Turn 2.

I would say that you can't because the action only allows Collodi gain Armor +1 and he can only pass on a condition he gains.

 

As for your trick Asrian, I'd say it doesn't work, because the other models would get the condition with the same duration as Collodi does. That would mean that their defensive would only last until Collodi's next activation.

[asrian]

I would say that you can't because the action only allows Collodi gain Armor +1 and he can only pass on a condition he gains.

 

As for your trick Asrian, I'd say it doesn't work, because the other models would get the condition with the same duration as Collodi does. That would mean that their defensive would only last until Collodi's next activation.

After thinking about it, I can agree with you on the Armor as it's passed out the moment he gives it to himself for 1AP (and he can only give himself a bonus and pass it out once a turn) so Armor +1 would be the max this way.

And my use of Defensive and Armor is completely legal and works. There is nothing that says the moment Collodi loses a condition so does anyone he passed them along to, only that he can pass them out. Just because he might activate and lose his defensive stance, or someone uses condition removal to have him lose it, does not mean it passes on to everyone. During Turn 2, if he went Defensive, everyone is still Defensive until they activate independent of whether or not he still retains his Defensive Stance.

 

[Bengt]

After thinking about it, I can agree with you on the Armor as it's passed out the moment he gives it to himself for 1AP (and he can only give himself a bonus and pass it out once a turn) so Armor +1 would be the max this way.

And my use of Defensive and Armor is completely legal and works. There is nothing that says the moment Collodi loses a condition so does anyone he passed them along to, only that he can pass them out. Just because he might activate and lose his defensive stance, or someone uses condition removal to have him lose it, does not mean it passes on to everyone. During Turn 2, if he went Defensive, everyone is still Defensive until they activate independent of whether or not he still retains his Defensive Stance.

They don't lose it because Collodi loses it, they lose it because the defensive stance condition he hands out is tagged to end at the start of Collodi's next activation.

[cursingbulldog]

I believe the wording for defensive is something like "loss this condition at the end of this models next activation." The word "this" would refer to the model the condition is attached to not to the one who took the action to give it. As far as I'm aware conditions always refer this to the model it's attached to or otherwise name a model specifically if there is a different case.

[PraetorDragoon]

I believe the wording for defensive is something like "loss this condition at the end of this models next activation." The word "this" would refer to the model the condition is attached to not to the one who took the action to give it. As far as I'm aware conditions always refer this to the model it's attached to or otherwise name a model specifically if there is a different case.

 

Defensive +1: This model gains to all Df duels. (Big rulebook, P 52)

 

Defensive doesn't have a duration tied to it by itself. The duration is stated by the Defensive Stance Action.

 

Defensive Stance: This model may discard a card. If the model does so, it gains the following Condition until the start of its next Activation a number of times equal to the AP spend on this Action" (Big Rulebook, P 39)

 

Now, onto fated 

 

Follow My Lead: Once per Turn, when this model receives a Condition from one of its own Actions, all friendly Puppets and Minions within p6 may gain the same Condition. (Fated, Neverborn Upgrade)

 

"Unless otherwise specified, all Conditions are removed from a model at the end of the Turn." (Big Rulebook, P 52)

 

Models gain the Condition because of the Follow My Lead ability. Because Follow My Lead doesn't specify when the condition is removed, the conditions granted with this ability are removed at the end of turn. 

 

 

At least, this is how I interpret it based on the rules.

[Myyrä]

Praetordragon's interpretation is the less generous one but quite valid as well. The question remains, if the condition gained by the muppets is the same as the one Collodi gets including the duration, or is it just same condition gained from a source that doesn't specify duration.

 

This thing could use a FAQ.

[cursingbulldog]

This seems counter intuitive to how defensive normally works but strictly RAW I guess I can see it. Makes defensive weaker for a fated crew and stronger for a props crew as collodi would keep defensive he steals before his activation for the rest of the turn.

[PraetorDragoon]

Praetordragon's interpretation is the less generous one but quite valid as well. The question remains, if the condition gained by the muppets is the same as the one Collodi gets including the duration, or is it just same condition gained from a source that doesn't specify duration.

 

This thing could use a FAQ.

 

I know it isn't the most nice interpretation of this situation. But when timing and duration get involved, things start going tricky. I agree with FAQ though, as this might be an intent vs written rules conflict. (And I prefer to follow intent in case)

 

 

This seems counter intuitive to how defensive normally works but strictly RAW I guess I can see it. Makes defensive weaker for a fated crew and stronger for a props crew as collodi would keep defensive he steals before his activation for the rest of the turn.

 

Always nice to see some upside of Props, right?

[cursingbulldog]

Props is already great, how I run collodi most of the time.

[enderwiggin]

I was afraid the +1 was how other people ran it, I was running into the same timing issue so I was afraid I was stubbornly convincing myself of the wrong way. So yay, I guess, I played it the right way but it wasn't the way I hoped it would turn out.

 

The defensive thing is one I'd like to find out though, that one I see the validity of both sides and I actually use the defensive one more than the armor as it is. :/