Looking at Sonnia, where to next?

[jonahmaul]

A Horror duel is a new Wp duel that results in a Ca action so I would say no.

[Dirial]

A Horror duel is a new Wp duel that results in a Ca action so I would say no.

 

Well, yeah, but it's a duel during her Ca action, triggered by targeting a Wp 6 model...

[zFiend]

I'd say no. She doesn't. It's during her CA actions, so she gets the on her CA duels.

[Dirial]

I'd say no. She doesn't. It's during her CA actions, so she gets the on her CA duels.

 

But that's not what's standing there. I have to declare a Ca action before targeting it, and targeting triggers Terrifying.

 

I don't say she gets it, as I'm still thinking about it, but the ability doesn't say Ca duels.

[jonahmaul]

Well, yeah, but it's a duel during her Ca action, triggered by targeting a Wp 6 model...

You declare an action against a Terrifying model then have to take the Terrifying duel before your action takes place.  And this is a Wp duel not a Ca duel so I don't think she would get the

[jonahmaul]

But that's not what's standing there. I have to declare a Ca action before targeting it, and targeting triggers Terrifying.

 

I don't say she gets it, as I'm still thinking about it, but the ability doesn't say Ca duels.

It does say Ca actions though and a Wp Horror duel isn't a Ca action.

[zFiend]

What Jonah already said.

[Dirial]

"Ancient Runes: This model gains  to duels during its Ca actions when targeting a model with Wp 6 or more."

 

Just to get this clear: Because it says Ca actions, you propose it only works on Ca duels? And you propose that the action is not beginning in Step 1 "Declare Action and spend AP" but in Step 2 "Perfrom Duels"?

[Adran]

yes it does give the bonus to duels that occur during its Ca Action. Horror and Manipulative are duels that occur during an action.

 

Ergo, she gets the bonus.

[Dirial]

I admit that this is really murky, because technically there is no such thing as a Ca action.

[zFiend]

Just to get this clear: Because it says Ca actions, you propose it only works on Ca duels? And you propose that the action is not beginning in Step 1 "Declare Action and spend AP" but in Step 2 "Perfrom Duels"?

Yeah I'm out.

[Dirial]

Yeah I'm out.

 

I was simply pointing out that this part 

 

You declare an action against a Terrifying model then have to take the Terrifying duel before your action takes place. 

 

is clearly not right. The Horror duel from Terrifying takes place during the action, no doubt about it.

[jonahmaul]

I admit that this is really murky, because technically there is no such thing as a Ca action.

Why do you think this?  Surely a Ca action is an action that has Ca at the beginning of it, just like there are Ml and Sh actions (and Incorporeal tells us that these are defined actions).

 

 

is clearly not right. The Horror duel from Terrifying takes place during the action, no doubt about it.

Also, why do you think it takes part during the action?   If it takes place during the action why do we still have to take two duels?  Horror is a distinct type of duel ('when a model is required to take a Horror Duel, it does so using it's Wp stat' - page 48 big rulebook).  I don't think there's any ambiguity about it being a separate duel and as it doesn't use Ca Sonnia wouldn't get a positive flip to it (if you fail said Horror duel then you do not get to take the Ca action you were trying to take because you end your activation).

 

Also Terrifying states that you take a Horror duel when you 'target' a model with Terrifying so you declare it as a target and then take the Horror duel before taking the action.

 

edit:

 

Found somewhere that it's even more clear:

 

Resolving actions (page 37, big rulebook):

 

1.  Declare action and spend AP

2.  Perform Duels

3.  Resolve Results

 

At the end of section 1:

 

'Sometimes a target will have special abilities (such as Terrifying) that requires a duel in response to being targeted.  These duels are handled now, after AP is spent and target are declared' (my emphasis).

 

As the duel doesn't happen until step 2 of the action she doesn't get the positive twist to the Horror duel.

[Dirial]

Okay, erm, I was wrong about there being no Ca actions, I think.

 

But in the second part you're mixing duels and actions together. On page 37, big book, there is a pretty clear example that Terrifying duels are resolved during the first step of an action, and thus during the action.

 

Of course, Horror is a distinct type of duel, but one that happens during an action. I'm not denying that it's a seperate duel that doesn't use Ca, but it's a duel that happens during a Ca action (not Ca duel).

[HowNot2Wargame]

Yeah , its totally a positive flip against terrifying duels. Murky but scans through.

Just in time for my never born game tomorrow

Against mainly nephilim...