Need some help with Neverborn.

[TychoTerziev]

Hi there! I love Neverborn, I really do, but lately I fell like I am constantly outgunned, countered and almost every game is a struggle. Lack of Condition removal and ranged attacks are big part of the problem. Exploding models are the bane of my existence!   I really love the idea of Pandora, but there seem to be lots of things out there that counter her a bit too hard. Taking her against Guild seems to be suicidal, because of those filthy Ortegas! Also having access only to the plastic range, I always feel like making compromises when building a crew, except when playing Jacob Lynch. This is valid for everyone in my position, but I can't help , but feel that some core options are missing from NB.  The Depleted are nice and all, but where are the Stitched Togethers? I

 

 I love playing Malifaux and I think that it is the best miniature game out there, but I feel like I am banging my head against the wall. After my last game (against McMourning) I was about to ragequit Malifaux or ragebuy the Rasputina box Maybe I just don't get NB. Probably they don't fit my playstyle or something. There is possibility that I've brought my 40K baggage ,where I had the fantastic talent to start the worst factions and I am paranoid that the same is happening in Malifaux ( I am not sure that there is even a worst faction here). This can easily lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy, which can result in bad play on my part.The easiest solution is to let NB rest for a while and start another faction, but I don't think that it is a good idea, as I've just started Infinity and have lots of WMH to paint. I am not sure what is happening. I've never felt so confused, when it comes to miniature games.  Just for the record- I own every non-promo NB plastic kit released for now and all of my playing group (me included) are noobies.

 

Your input is greatly appreciated!

[enderwiggin]

Playing style is definately per Master. I started Ramos what seems like ages ago and I hated the gameplay in hindsight.

If you have some friends to play with, then try swapping armies and check out a fresh new perspective on another force and your own army.

[Bodiless]

Welcome to Malifaux!

 

I say that tongue in cheek, but if you search the forums for my posts you will find posts from me saying very similar things from when I started about a year or so ago. I was starting Neverborn, coming from other games, and the Ortegas and Rasputina had me on the verge of rage-quitting Malifaux entirely. The learning curve in Malifaux is steep, the steepest of any game I have played. You are not alone. But Neverborn is definitely not a weak faction, and you have not hamstrung yourself by picking it. 

 

One the most important, brain-altering pieces of advice I have been given about how to be successful at Malifaux is to think of it as a game to 10. Getting 10 points is your goal. It isn't 40k or WMH where your primary focus is on killing enemy models to win - killing models in Malifaux is only useful as a means to the end of reaching 10 VP. Getting tabled and winning in Malifaux is not a 'fake' win or anything like that - if anything it actually shows a certain flair.  

 

Lilith is an extremely flexible master, and you can make a very complete crew for her using just the available plastic models. With Waldgeists to generate cover, tots and silurids to run schemes, Nephilim and Teddy for bruisers, Doppelganger to control initiative and hit tricky interact schemes, you can cover just about any eventuality. And don't be afraid to mix and match crews - an Illuminated to the face is unpleasant no matter who the master is. I'd try focusing on Lilith as your master a while and see if that helps, especially while keeping your focus on those 10 points.

 

Hope that helps!

[Mxbedlam]

if you are getting blasted by Perdita and her familia then you are probably playing with too little terrain. You cannot give Perdita a killing field or she will wipe the board with you. Learning Pandora has been a struggle for me over the last few months too, but I'm starting to get a good feel for when and how to take her. Make sure you are minimizing Reckoning or Make Them Suffer targets in your crew. 

Pandora can do well with a couple big beaters like Bad Juju, Teddy, even Mature Nephilim.

Also, I second the Illuminated. the are awesome

[Nical]

Find Master for You 

Every Neverborn master has his/her own style(and pros & cons). So you think about that.  

But Don't need to choose master for win. Choose master who you want and Cover problem with other things.

 

For Example, If you choose Pandora for Reconnoiter, you must think schemes and other things in your crew.  

In this situation, you can cover her weakness with some schemes about killing and some swampfiend models. 

Pandora works for Schemes, Swampfiends work for strategy by Hex Among You Upgrade.  

But if you want to win really(in tourney or league), Take other master for Reconnoiter.

 

Think about Strategy / Schemes

It is important, too. You must think not only what you can choose and but also what your opponent can choose. 

 

For Example, Depleted are very soild model as Tar Pit. But If your opponent can choose Distract Scheme, they aren't. 

Because Depleted can't use interact actions, so they can't remove Distract. It make them as VP donors for opponent. 

Just by giving Distract to 2 or more Depleteds and keeping them alive, your opponent can get 3 VP. 

 

Create Crew by Synergy  

Every Neverborn master has his/her own style, It means his/her synergy is different each other. So you think about them.

An important point is that Some Model can be used as solution for your crew, It has synergy with your crew, too.

 

For Example, Silurids don't have something about WP. But they are better than Woe's for some schemes.

So If Pandora take them for those Schemes, Nothing is wrong. (But she may prefer Terror Tot or Insidous Madness to Silurid) 

 

Use Terrains / Tricks

Neverborn is Melee-centric Faction, so you must use terrain to save your models from opponents before engaged.

And Something like Lure are useful. because they make you can engage faster. 

 

For Example, You can use Sorrow's "Misery Loves Company" to engage and it can be used to your own models. 

So with models have "From the Shadow", Sorrow can move to opponents at most 8"+8" = 16" in an activation.     

 

Most Important Thing is VP

How many your models kill or be killed is not more important than VP. So you think how you get more VP than opponents. 

Losing models can be endured for VP. 

 

Buy "1ed" Models

Many players have played Neverborn from 1ed, So they don't think about "old 1ed models" Problem. 

Because they have old 1ed models like Black Blood Shaman or Insidious Madness, so they can use them as solution.

It makes gap. So you want to expand your crew, Think about them. 

 

For example, People say Insidious Madness is better than Sorrow. But you must use other stores or convert models for it.

(Conversion Rules are in Gaining Ground 2015) 

[TychoTerziev]

Thank you for the replies! Lilith (my first master) is fantastic indeed. Maybe my doubts started to creep in, when I decided to learn the other masters, especially Pandora.... which coincided with my first game against Perdita I realize that I am still trapped in the killy mindset and caught myself always picking killy schemes, when they are available. As for the terrain ,we have more than enough, but I don't think we setup it in a good way. For some weird reason there is always an open area at the middle of the board (I blame WMH for that). Sadly, buying 1ed models is not an option. I don't like their look and I really want to support my FLGS. Its owner made a great effort to support our wargame community. As for converting stuff , I try to stay away from proxies, although I felt forced to convert Johan. Now captain Dashel wields a big hammer .

 

I guess I have to suck it up and play with the models I have for now. Probably Pandora will stay in the box for a while. I should also acknowledge the steep learning curve. Thanks again!

[Dirial]

Funny. One of my regular opponents had the exactly opposite experience. He says he just doesn't get Lilith's style, but he loves playing Pandora. Note that I often play Perdita and Sonnia who are said to be the bane of Pandora's existence, but he still prefers her to Lilith against me.

 

Styles vary apparently.

[Nical]

Thank you for the replies! Lilith (my first master) is fantastic indeed. Maybe my doubts started to creep in, when I decided to learn the other masters, especially Pandora.... which coincided with my first game against Perdita I realize that I am still trapped in the killy mindset and caught myself always picking killy schemes, when they are available. As for the terrain ,we have more than enough, but I don't think we setup it in a good way. For some weird reason there is always an open area at the middle of the board (I blame WMH for that). Sadly, buying 1ed models is not an option. I don't like their look and I really want to support my FLGS. Its owner made a great effort to support our wargame community. As for converting stuff , I try to stay away from proxies, although I felt forced to convert Johan. Now captain Dashel wields a big hammer .

 

I guess I have to suck it up and play with the models I have for now. Probably Pandora will stay in the box for a while. I should also acknowledge the steep learning curve. Thanks again!

 

Lilith is usually better than Pandora for Newbie. (But I started Malifaux as Collodi at Rising Powers, So I think it's not very important)

Because Lilith has all essential models as Plastic for her (Except Black Blood Shaman) and Her Pros and Cons is very readable.

Additionally, Lilith have some solutions for her cons by her Terrain Control.  

 

But Pandora is different case. Her synergy is wide, but important thing for Pandora is to solve problem, not to get 'positive' synergy.  

So Taking Pandora means you think more things than Taking Lilith (In Newbie's View).

[Mxbedlam]

Not to toot my own horn, but my blog has been focusing on Pandora lately as I've played her pretty hard core for the past 2 months. Check it out, maybe it will help.

http://malifolks.blogspot.com/2015/01/all-things-in-pandoras-box.html

[TychoTerziev]

Lots of wisdom here. It helped me quite a lot. But just when I started to feel more confident in NB, I saw Sidir. Why, oh why ? Probably I am too fixated on The Guild.   I should just let it go.

[Dirial]

Lots of wisdom here. It helped me quite a lot. But just when I started to feel more confident in NB, I saw Sidir. Why, oh why ?

 

Hm? What's wrong about Sidir?

[zFiend]

Perdita and Sonnia who are said to be the bane of Pandora's existence

 

To be fair they are the bane of almost every crews existence. Perdita especially.

 

Sidir is quite bad really, with By Your Side, Promises, Sh7, dishing out slow, durable as hell..

[TychoTerziev]

 May statement about Sidir was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but he is yet  another  tool in the Guild's arsenal to help with WP duels.

[Dirial]

Well, he's only immune during his own activation, and I don't think he's that durable. He has a heal and a lot of Wds, but not much else.

 

Also, Misery does it's damage regardless of Slow.

 

Well, he sure is good, but I struggle massively against Pandora, so I always assume she has the necessary tools.

[TychoTerziev]

 I was talking about his ability то give positive twists to WP duels. Well , your post seems to prove an Idea of friend of mine that everyone is scared of what the other guys can do.

[Dirial]

Ah, I see. Well, yes, Promises is that good.

 

I also very much like the Dampening Field against Candy.

 

 

everyone is scared of what the other guys can do.

 

I absolutely agree to that.

[Nical]

Promises is good, but Limited. It works to only upgraded model, so It doesn't works to non-upgraded model like 'normal' Minions & Peons. 

So, You can kill non-upgraded models first or take some Beatsticks for Non Wp Attack to solve problem about it. 

[valhallan42nd]

One of my first faction choices was Ten Thunders. I was completely unsuccessful with all of them that I played. It's okay to switch factions. I was much happier in Resser/Outcast land.

Might I suggest :
 

• Asking your opponent what she would have done if they were you?
• Asking your opponent what models you have that worried them?
• Asking your opponent if you could play with their list (either by proxying their models or borrowing them). That will allow you to: gain knowledge about their crews, see if you work better with them, and see what models are important for them to have, so you can know which models to eliminate first.

[TychoTerziev]

Oh, I have switched factions already- i started with ressers, but I found them to be somewhat unexciting to play. I like the idea behind TT, Outcasts and Arcanists , but I am not sure if I would play anything else than Neverborn for now. I have almost painted my whole collection and starting the same process from scratch can be quite exhausting and will most likely lead to a total burnout. I believe that I should chalk  this up to growing pains and continue focusing on NB.

 

 Valhalla, your other suggestions are quite solid, but I am not touching those filthy guild models! Joke aside, I don't feel comfortable playing with others' models and and I am not terribly excited about playing a faction that I don't like very much. That said,  it's about time for me to start reading what the other guys can do, instead of just skimming through Pullmyfinger and calling it a day,  And yes, the learning curve IS brutal. Which  is quite comforting in a certain way.

 

 

 I am starting to realize that I am simply applying incorrectly my previous tabletop experience to Malifaux. Playing subpar factions in the past shouldn't be a crutch now, when all evidence is pointing to the fact the Malifaux is (at least) decently balanced.