Tara - The Nothing Beast, Strongarm and Librarian

[Mr_Brightside]

I think a Malifaux Child is a better totem than Karina (most of the time). Just my opinion. I like the option of someone else burring for her with KoE.

[Clyde_Davis]

Okay, so I tried the Graveyard Spirit out with my Tara - and I have to say, he is a very strong contender for that totem spot. 

 

"Strength From Below" is a nice addition to the Nothing Beast. Having the little guy trailing the Beastie really added longevity to the big guy. 

 

And the (0) "One Foot In The Grave" fits right into the mechanism of Tara's crew of getting rid of cards. This time around, making your opponent discard a  card too!

[zFiend]

Hey that's a cool idea. Grave Spirit with Nothing Beast. I have that keep that in mind once I get to Tara.

[SpiralngCadavr]

I think it's good when it's good, but when facing anything that gets around Incorporeal, it's one more thing that defensively relies on things being sh/ml attacks, and the NB is hopping around the board so not the easiest to set up.

 

IDK, I've never been a fan of overspecialization since it just gets swingy (and play against the heavy spellslingers enough to want to avoid a bad match against magic artillery). I much prefer the Grave Spirit in a more conventional list.

 

That, and I really like Karina's summon and pretty good ranged attack, so don't really see the need for other totems/enjoy playing thematic sets.

[zFiend]

Oh right, Karina is good nowadays.

[Clyde_Davis]

To be honest - I'm still not sold on Karina, even with her new summoning upgrade (I just haven't had much luck with it). I  think in all my games with her, she's been a useful summoner in two. Now, I'm not saying that she isn't good... I just haven't had any positive experiences with her, to make her an auto-include.

[MasterDisaster]

To be honest - I'm still not sold on Karina, even with her new summoning upgrade (I just haven't had much luck with it). I  think in all my games with her, she's been a useful summoner in two. Now, I'm not saying that she isn't good... I just haven't had any positive experiences with her, to make her an auto-include.

 

Oh she is by no means an auto-include although she is now very useful with her new upgrade. Karina still makes me think "Meh!" but she can happily make her cost back in summons. Hell... Summon one Iron Zombie with her and not only are you laughing (Maniacally I hope! It is the Rezzer way ) but you've already made her cost back and then some! 

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yeah, statistically she should be able to summon around 10-15SS' worth of guys unassisted if she lasts most of the game, and her summon and its range are good enough that it's not very difficult or taxing to keep her back-field until she can summon.

 

I find it hugely more beneficial to run her with all the crows, and let anyone else soulstone for theirs, which means I play higher cache with her, and like the mechanic enough that I run her with Hannah (well, I also like hannah's attacks/flexibility) for the extra card and have been regularly hitting around the 20SS mark with her. I think my opponents are starting to see her as a priority target, but with a 0 summon and easy access to fast, you still have a foot-ish of hit & run space, only giving up chain activation to play her conservatively if you need to. And with the summon, she's actually worth taking, so I've learned to use her other abilities, which are quite respectable (just painfully overpriced on her original 5SS non-summoning form).

 

IDK if I'd consider her an auto-include, but I certainly always include her of late, and have built lists towards her strengths. She finally occupies the space totems are supposed to, of supporting their master's playstyle, and she fits right in the glass-cannon-y feel of the rest of the void models. I'm actually considering taking Lizzy and Hannah both with Tara for the extended summoning hand and bunch of spooky spellcasting ladies. Depends on how post-beta Lizzy is, though, since I find her really stripped-down/boring now.

 

edit: so, yeah, outside stuff where your opponent gets points for wrecking your minions directly (which basically hurts any style of summoner), I guess I'd consider her an auto.

[Arash_Suri]

I've been using Tara pretty exclusively as of late, and have to agree with Spiraling Cadaver's assessment of Karina. I generally don't use a lot of soulstones with Tara, sometimes for defense but very rarely are opponents fixating on Tara herself, so using stones for the crow unbury is not a big deal. It's also the only suit that she ever needs. I have started to run 5-6 stones with her though, whereas before I was content with the 4 she comes with. 

 

I generally activate Karina late in the turn, so if I still have a high crow I'll summon. If not, then it's still a fine 5 point investment for me. Especially because I love the added flexibility that access to the students gives you. I recently won a game with a well placed student of steel. He (she? it?) really turned the game for me.  

[thebarbalag]

Last time I played Tara, Karina summoned two Punks over the course of the game (had the cards to do more, but it wasn't the optimal use of resources), and put Burning + 2 on a buried McMourning, which finished him off. I felt it was a decent result for 5 ss.

[Mikey_C]

 very rarely are opponents fixating on Tara herself,

 

Every time I take her she seems to be almost priority 1 for my opponents.

Eternal journey has become nearly auto include for me and I am using it primarily to get her back to the safety of her deployment zone.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Every time I take her she seems to be almost priority 1 for my opponents.

Eternal journey has become nearly auto include for me and I am using it primarily to get her back to the safety of her deployment zone.

Weird. Unless my opponent can get a real beater close to her, I've had her buff vs. CA and mask for no shooting damage (effectively also SS for no damage) generally keep her safe enough that my opponents focus on killing her crew way more than they go after her, since she's pretty meh except for support (i.e. nothing left to support is usually the weak link they aim for).

[Arash_Suri]

Yeah if people go for her, she's not hard to take down. But she's usually behind whatever it is that she just unburied. I think going for Tara is a mistake, because with eternal journey she has an emergency button, and she's usually not the most damaging piece on the board.  

[SpiralngCadavr]

Heh, I've actually never taken the "emergency button", but am curious about it now, since it's apparently a strong option. IDK, maybe I just don't feel the need to reposition, but I've never really felt lacking it.

[Mikey_C]

I'm honestly baffled as to how you can get her to survive without it.

I pulse out a few fast and most of my opponents want to remove that ability at its source. 

[MasterDisaster]

I've never used Eternal Journey and very rarely do I have Tara die on me. Often with Killjoy / Bishop / SAS / Convict Gunslingers / Taelor / Johan etc running around decimating everything in their path Tara comes off as the lesser of all evils. Sure she enables much of the destructive output of her crew but she isn't the primary threat. I've also found her to be very SS light, I often finish games with 2-3 SS left over so I really tend to use them for cards or save them for those rare occasions when damage prevention is required. I've never really felt the need to include that upgrade. Tara has always been very upgrade reliant and those 3 precious spots are often reserved for Obliteration Symbiote, Knowledge of Eternity and Dead of Winter (I LOVE that -2 Wp Aura too much!) I gotta admit though I've always wanted to try having some fun with Whispers from Darkness. 

[SpiralngCadavr]

I'm honestly baffled as to how you can get her to survive without it.

You pulse out a few fast and most of my opponents want to remove that ability at its source. 

Well, somewhere in there, it appears your meta goes after Tara while mine hates on the NB, or those are the vulnerabilities we each allow.

 

IDK, masters are always good targets, but compared to running really directly damaging ones, if I put the pressure on with what Tara pushes and make those more immediately threatening targets, they'll be what takes the brunt of the damage. Basically the only way people can get at Tara is in melee, (since range is easy for her to shut down if you see it coming, and she gets a buff against magic) if you try decently hard, and if you chain her big guys at charge vectors, that angle gets denied in many cases and, again, big guys are more of an immediate threat.

 

I think it might have something to do with you dumping your hand? I thought, somewhere back, you mentioned basically focusing on getting the NB to high defenses, so it would make sense that you're card-light, which would put non-Nothingness high-priority pieces (Tara) in a pretty vulnerable position. I usually stop pushing to get void things when they hit middling defenses (burn half the hand unless it's good, in which case I might let them go on a little longer at lower defense) and save the best cards for defenses and necessary triggers unless it's something like a fight I think the NB is about to get chumped in.

 

I probably take the void set about half the time, and the rest just run with undead/mercs/DMs etc. with maybe 0-2 wretches for scheme running/opportunity/to taste. If you run void-heavy all the time, then, yeah, people will probably learn to go for what are usually the easier targets.

[SpiralngCadavr]

I've never used Eternal Journey and very rarely do I have Tara die on me. Often with Killjoy / Bishop / SAS / Convict Gunslingers / Taelor / Johan etc running around decimating everything in their path Tara comes off as the lesser of all evils. Sure she enables much of the destructive output of her crew but she isn't the primary threat. I've also found her to be very SS light, I often finish games with 2-3 SS left over so I really tend to use them for cards or save them for those rare occasions when damage prevention is required. I've never really felt the need to include that upgrade. Tara has always been very upgrade reliant and those 3 precious spots are often reserved for Obliteration Symbiote, Knowledge of Eternity and Dead of Winter (I LOVE that -2 Wp Aura too much!) I gotta admit though I've always wanted to try having some fun with Whispers from Darkness. 

About the same place, except I'll usually run OS and either of the others, since they serve similar purposes and I like practicing with that third slot open for versatility (or more zombie summoning, when playing her as a dirty resser).

[Mikey_C]

 

I think it might have something to do with you dumping your hand? I thought, somewhere back, you mentioned basically focusing on getting the NB to high defenses, so it would make sense that you're card-light, which would put non-Nothingness high-priority pieces (Tara) in a pretty vulnerable position. I usually stop pushing to get void things when they hit middling defenses (burn half the hand unless it's good, in which case I might let them go on a little longer at lower defense) and save the best cards for defenses and necessary triggers unless it's something like a fight I think the NB is about to get chumped in.

 

You are misinterpreting something I will do occasionally / situationally, as something I do all the time.

If recall you said you'll often pulse fast twice a turn (or that may have been someone else)? If that's the case, I'm guessing our hands are likely in about the same shape. There is a fair bit of high CA, and highly mobile crews in our group. Even with Eternal Journey she attracts a lot of attention.  

 

[SpiralngCadavr]

Oh, fair enough.

 

Yeah, I tend to hand out fast during the second activation, but will sometimes do both activations if I'm not in the right shape to do so during the preceding second (out of position, need my other actions, etc.).

 

IDK past that. I have her hang a bit behind the front line and my opponents tend to go for the more immediate threat/easier kill, I guess. Especially with summoning and unburying, I feel like I usually have enough immediate threats to keep the pressure up and away from her.

 

Maybe it's just that she's less directly threatening than combat masters (which are more often the style I encounter)?

[Arash_Suri]

I've played my last 2 games without the place, and Tara hasn't died yet. I didn't miss it, but going to try some more games. One game I ran her with survivalist instead because assassinate was on the board, but it never came up.