Timing of Catalyst vs Regeneration

[Math Mathonwy]

If a model with Regeneration has Poison while within the Aura of a model with Catalyst, does the Poison damage happen before Regeneration?

The reason for doubt here comes from the word "immediately" on Catalyst. Does it impose an exception to the usual timing of Abilities that happen at the beginning of an Activation?

Or is this an example of reading too much into a wording choice?

For reference:

Regeneration +1: When this model Activates it heals 1 damage.

Catalyst: Other models with the Poison Condition which begin their Activation within 8 of one or more models with this Ability immediately suffer 1 damage from the Poison Condition and then lower their Poison Condition value by 1.

[DocSchlock]

That's a good one.

 

Since "immediately" isn't a game-defined term, it goes back to common English, where it means "instantly; at once."

 

Example from the book:

"A Trigger's effect is resolved immediately unless

indicated in the Trigger's description, as it may be resolved later". 

 

So all Triggers are essentially immediate. I'd argue the "immediately" in Catalyst is extraneous.

Edit: as pointed out below, Regen and Catalyst are two Abilities, not Triggers. I blame the lack of coffee.

[Math Mathonwy]

Note that Catalyst is an always on ability and not a Trigger (and Regeneration as well). Not sure whether it makes a difference here, mind.

[DocSchlock]

Well darn, I really missed that one.

I'd argue it's still the same. If you search the rulebook / cards, "immediately" is used to show that something happens at a certain step - nothing like breaking out of timings. 

Edit: Now that I think about, the timing rules are there for when multiple effects resolve "immediately" at the same timing. It wouldn't make sense for one thing to be "more immediate" than the other. The liberal use of "immediate" among rules seems to reinforce this point.

[The Godlyness]

General timing box. When two abilities happen at the same time. (This case when this model activates/beginning of its activation).

If two Abilities happen at the same time, resolve them in the following order:

1. The Acting Model resolves its Abilities.

2. The Defending Model (if there is one) resolves its Abilities.

3. Any other models controlled by the First Player resolves all of their Ability effects in any order the First Player chooses.

4. Any other models controlled by the Second Player resolves all of their Ability effects in any order the Second Player chooses

So regnertion would happen first.

If you believe that they have different timing I point you to page 36 of the big book. Step 1 resolve activation effects.

Hope this helps.

[Myyrä]

I would say that the word immediately doesn't really matter. It doesn't seem to really mean anything (and if it does it would affect really many abilities and triggers). That would mean that the active model's ability (regeneration) would go first.

[The Godlyness]

Also side not immediately is not in the timing of the catalyst ability. It is an "at the beginning of activation "effect. Which coincide with many different things. Once it's catalysts "turn" the model immediately takes 1 poison damge. Not that anything is impeding or stopping it at this point.

[Rob Lo]

My guess is that the writer used the word immediately as a shorthand to mean "usually poison happens at the end of the turn, but the whole point of this ability is to do it out of normal sequence and, when activated, go through the whole poison mechanic, as you normally would, right then and there."

 

Assuming my blatant and admittedly error prone mind reading is correct, I'd have shortened it to 'immediately', as well.

[Math Mathonwy]

I would say that the word immediately doesn't really matter. It doesn't seem to really mean anything (and if it does it would affect really many abilities and triggers). That would mean that the active model's ability (regeneration) would go first.

Aye, this is how I would've ruled it as well.

Thank you for the confirmation, everyone!