Kaeris upgrades?

[Findas]

i don't seem to understand the upgrades and how they work.

 

 

i played a game last week and took the upgrade that heals things which have burning on then i found out it doesn't work on the fire gamin or the rail golem and this week i took the grab and drop upgrade and when i tried to use it on turn one to get extra movement by picking up the rail golem my opponent pointed out that the wording says "enemy model" so i couldn't do what i was trying. 

 

also what's going on with the purifying flame? it has an ability to remove immunity to burning on models close to it does this make the gamin and golem take damage from burning and if so why?

 

i was told that malifaux 2.0 is easier to understand than the 1.5 edition but all i am finding is that things never work the way i think is it me or is it that the crew i am playing is very complicated?

[Ausplosions]

You just need to ensure you are reading abilities correctly.

Grab and Drop is BRUTAL. it regularly allows my usual opponent to move my models where he wants them, while placing Kaeris. Then they take damage!

Models immune to burning do not take damage from burning, and so do not heal.

[Durza]

Yeah, when reading the cards you need to really focus on the wording, I've found it helps if you read it out loud, if you think you see a great combo, go over every card involved several times.

[Adran]

For her healing upgrade it states that when the model would take damage, it instead heals that damage. So If a model doesn't take damage from Burning for some reason, then it won't heal. Likewise, if a model says it is immune to burning, it wount take the damage, but the purifying flame will remove that ability.

 

Several things are set to only work on enemies, to prevent them givign you too much advantage to do to your own crew. The Grab and drop attack is one. It is a great attack, and also the upgrades ability to give models nearby flight (if they are on fire) is good for increaseing your own crews mobility.

 

The best advice really is read the card carefully, several times. Then try and explain your plan to someone else and see if it makes sense to them (So many of my grand plans fail when I read the abilitys out to my opponent and discover words like Until end of turn in the ability).

There are still complicated interactions, they have just tried to make them less common and easier to follow.

 

What ever crew you play will have some complex interactions that will need checking, and thats largely what this forum is for. Sometimes the answer is just read the card more carefuilly, they do have generally good explainations

[Findas]

ok so i just plain got it wrong i have yet to find any combos with kaeris that actually work! i find this very frustrating, i was told kaeris is fast but last game i played against Mc Morning and he was able to get 16" of extra movement a turn that's a couple of inches less than her base movement! 

 

i don't understand this game and i don't know why, people say its balanced now but i didn't have a chance against my last two opponents.

[Adran]

The best advice I can offer is to focus on 1 thing at a time.

for example, Next time you play a game focus on scheme marker schemes (hopefully there will be 2 in the pool, there will be at least Line in the sand). You probably won't win the game, but should learn something about what you crew does, and how good/bad some things are at dropping markers, and keeping them down.

Personally I would try and use as much of the crew as possible without upgrades, although thats up to you. (Grab and drop is pretty good for droping scheme  markers if you can set fire to your own team for example, but if you are unsure of how to use it, don't).

 

I can't really comment on your games, and your playstyle, but there shouldn't be a huge advantage either way in a Mcmorning v Kaeris game.

[Ausplosions]

The fact you lose doesn't make the game unbalanced. It means you need to work harder

. Kaeris has her full FLIGHT movement, and then an extra PLACE after she has used Grab and Drop. She is super fast.

Not understanding how to make a crew work for you, and an unbalanced game are not at all the same thing.

[Findas]

i agree that me being bad at this game does not make it unbalanced i just think other masters have very powerful combos and i have no idea where my crew gets its power and what its good at. i also agree that it may be a good idea to try the crew with no upgrades but as my opponents will not do the same i don't think i will play without them. i don't mind loosing but if it happens and i cant see any way i could have won it annoys me.

[Ausplosions]

http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/100695-m2e-kaeris/

Try that thread.

My regular opponents has a 100% success rate with Kaeris.

[Ratty]

i agree that me being bad at this game does not make it unbalanced i just think other masters have very powerful combos and i have no idea where my crew gets its power and what its good at. i also agree that it may be a good idea to try the crew with no upgrades but as my opponents will not do the same i don't think i will play without them. i don't mind loosing but if it happens and i cant see any way i could have won it annoys me.

 

You may want to try and get a small Vassal game with no upgrades, there are always people lurking around here. The other option is see if your opponent will swap crews. It's a really good way to learn what a crew can do. (It also works very well vice versa, when I was trying to beat Pandora in 1.5 I started playing her, which made all her issues really glaring to me. Then once I had swapped back I exploited those weaknesses)

[Durza]

Don't be discouraged by losses, try and learn from them. I had an opponent who would lose a game or two, decide the crew he was using was useless and move onto another crew, but because he didn't know how the new crew worked, he lost his first few games, so he decided that crew was useless, and just never got anywhere or learned anything. Just keep at it and you will eventually click with how it works.

[St. Murphy]

As a Kaeris player, I find she doesn't typically play out to have the earth shattering combos that instant kill a master or win the game in one fell swoop. Her crew works with a lot of synergy around the burning condition. Kaeris and the firestarter hand out burning tokens like easter candy. Rail Golem becomes a reactivating juggernaut when you set him on fire first turn. The gun smith's get ++ to attack flips against targets with burning. Rail workers can cause a model to immediately resolve the burning condition for a zero action. Kaeris herself gets + to attack and damage with her immolate against models with burning. She can also draw extra cards (so you can cheat the hell out off all your duels) from models with burning within 3". First turn: set 3 of your models on fire right next to Kaeris and draw some extra cards. Set the rail golem on fire so you can use some of those Tomes you just drew to get your trigger on locomotion. Starting on the second turn set aflame any enemy model within 12". Snipe em  with the gunsmiths and charge the rail golem into the fray and locomotion the hell out of somebody. Get a good handle on how her crew operates with minimal upgrades. Then start using them one at a time to get a handle on them. Use grab and drop to send out your minions with scheme markers and to maneuver your enemies(like singling  out your opponent's master). As far as game balance goes, up close,it will not be balanced. Most models have a hard counter from another model. Each master with have a hard time against a couple of other masters out there. But when you look at it from further back, it becomes balanced. Each faction has the tools to balance out with the other factions. That is why you don't select your crew until you announce factions and determine schemes and strategies. Don't try and win a shootout against guild and don't try and win a fistfight with neverborn. Not sayin' it can't happen, but be flexible in your approach. And most of all, play the schemes and strategies. Pick models that can accomplish your goals. Fire gamin are great for running around the board and dropping scheme markers, but they're not going to assassinate a master. Anywho, keep working with Kaeris. She is awesome once you get  a feel for the synergy of her crew. And feel free to message me if you want to talk more.

[Scorpion0x17]

I'm in a similar position, Findas.

I'm new to the game and bought a Kaeris starter because I like the figures, however I initially found all the synergies and combos a little difficult to get my head round.

So, I simplified the crew and upgrades for a couple of games and it really helped.

[Kadeton]

ok so i just plain got it wrong i have yet to find any combos with kaeris that actually work! i find this very frustrating, i was told kaeris is fast but last game i played against Mc Morning and he was able to get 16" of extra movement a turn that's a couple of inches less than her base movement! 

 

i don't understand this game and i don't know why, people say its balanced now but i didn't have a chance against my last two opponents.

 

One additional thing to keep in mind is that just because a particular model is good at something, it doesn't mean they're the best - and conversely, just because another model is as good or better at that thing doesn't diminish your model's strength.

 

Kaeris is very mobile. However, McMourning (in the right circumstances) is also terrifyingly fast. There are other Masters that are even faster - but it's still one of Kaeris' strong points. More importantly, Kaeris can help her whole crew move easily, which helps a great deal more than running a model out alone. Or, she can generate a tremendous amount of healing (something at which she is genuinely the best in the game).

 

I do think that, perhaps more than most other Masters, Kaeris isn't particularly friendly to new players. There's a few of those 'gotcha' interactions, like Fire Gamin and the Rail Golem being immune to her healing, and she doesn't have the direct killing power of most other Masters. Some of that comes from new players not yet having a handle on how the game is actually won - by schemes, not by killing, generally speaking - but some of it is genuinely complicated interactions that aren't obvious at first glance.

 

Basically, as others have said: stick with Kaeris, strip your games back to the bare essentials, and build up slowly as the interactions start to become clear. She's a strong Master, but you'll need a fair bit of experience to really get her firing on all cylinders. If you try to jump into a F1 racer on the day you get your driver's licence, all you'll win is a Darwin Award.

[Scorpion0x17]

she can generate a tremendous amount of healing (something at which she is genuinely the best in the game).

This is one area where I'm still struggling - I see how you give out healing - using Purifying Fire, and/or her Totem - but I find by the time I want to heal stuff they're too far away and/or not burning (and then not in range of her Flare action)!

[Kadeton]

Her healing is generally not something you can do effectively on multiple models while moving across the board. It's much better suited to a static take-and-hold position, or an extended mass melee. As a starting point, note that you can use the Firestarter's Twirling with the Gas Can to heal an extra +2 on every model. Combine with the Eternal Flame's Flaming Detonation, and you can heal two models twice in a turn for a minimum of 3 Wds each time. It takes a lot of setup, though.

 

In mobility-based scenarios, Grab and Drop is likely to be more useful, but it's worth experimenting to see what works for you.

[Findas]

thank you all very much for the good advice, i have had another game this week and it went a little better although i took 7 points of upgrades and only the one that upps defense was any use at all. i still don't understand the upgrades but i think i understand the crew a little better.

[Ausplosions]

Do you mean Kaeris took 7 points of upgardes herself? 

[Csonti]

You can also read through THIS.

[Findas]

to clarify i took 

Kaeris: born of fire, purifying fire, imbued protection

Rail golem, bleeding edge tech

3 fire gamin

2 gunsmiths

Eternal flame

 

also thanks for the link Csonti but i have never found wikki like that usefull.