Vanessa's heal???

[Drool_bucket]

I don't know... saying the Viks don't need healing is a tough stance to take, in my own experiences.

 

When I face Viks and when I use them against savvy opponents they know they just have to start sandpapering them a little bit, feed them less than attractive fodder and then hit the right Sister at the right time.  I have lost both Sisters to a stiff breeze before because I couldn't get them into valuable targets and I couldn't get my activations to go my way.

 

It's the reason I play the Viks as a tremedeously shooty crew and Vanessa (and the Librarian) both fit that role as well, plus offer precious healing...

 

but, as stated before, YMMV and that is part of the glory that is M2e

[Kadeton]

I tend to play a very melee-heavy crew, so it's tough for most opponents to get near the Viks before I want them to. There are very few things in the game that can outrange the Viks on their glory-turn charge, and even fewer things that can survive it, so I don't generally struggle to get them into 3-4 targets (usually including the opposing Master) and kill them all. After that, they might survive or they might not, but either way they've cut the heart out of the enemy crew and it's mostly mopping up after that.

 

The best thing to take away from these diametrically opposed playstyles is that you should never listen to anyone that tells you there's only one way to play a Master.

 

(Seriously though, have you tried running tremendously shooty Freikorps instead? They're honestly much better at it.)

[Kaptain_Konrad]

Whats the glory turn charge?

[Drool_bucket]

 

(Seriously though, have you tried running tremendously shooty Freikorps instead? They're honestly much better at it.)

I have. I find Friekorps offense limited to the SAS and VS himself.... (I don't use Laz with VS) and the rest of my crew is running schemes, tying up stuff and generally not dying.

Hans, Vanessa, Gunslingers/Sue and Ashes herself are more core Sister selections and I find their shooting enough to force the opponent to close, which gives the Sisters a shot at closing the distance with little trouble.

This all said, I firmly believe that the Outcasts are the strongest ranged attacking Faction and have a tendency to run with that theory.

[Kadeton]

It's the turn both Sisters pop Oathkeeper for Fast and fly across the board to rip out the heart of the enemy crew. You set up with your Malifaux Child casting Sisters in Fury. Vik B has a 14" threat range (16" through terrain if you took Scramble based on board setup) and gets three attacks with a to damage which can all trigger Whirlwinds. Most opponents can't kill her in a single activation, since you should still be getting your to defend and have most of your stones. Next activation, Vik A can charge a similar distance, or walk and Dragon's Bite if possible (to bypass blocking models and/or gain a better position for both Sisters, also buffing their Df) and unleash a similar number of attacks. It's not difficult to get 10-15 Ml 7 attacks with min Dg 5 spread over several models (more if the enemy is especially clumped up).

 

Sometimes, if you're quite unlucky, the Viks are left in a bad position and at least one of them might die. More often than not, though, they're just left drenched in blood over a pile of corpses, with nothing left in the area to challenge them effectively - next turn they can start bouncing through whatever's left of the enemy.

 

The main trick with this is working out the best time to do it, and which targets to avoid, but it's honestly pretty easy to pull off, even against players who've seen it many times. I feel really bad using the Viks against players who haven't seen them in action before because it feels incredibly unfair.

[Kadeton]

I have. I find Friekorps offense limited to the SAS and VS himself.... (I don't use Laz with VS) and the rest of my crew is running schemes, tying up stuff and generally not dying.

Hans, Vanessa, Gunslingers/Sue and Ashes herself are more core Sister selections and I find their shooting enough to force the opponent to close, which gives the Sisters a shot at closing the distance with little trouble.

This all said, I firmly believe that the Outcasts are the strongest ranged attacking Faction and have a tendency to run with that theory.

 

Fair enough! Is there a reason you don't use Laz or Hans with the Freikorps? I'm guessing it's related to the type of scenarios you choose VS to lead in.

 

The Outcasts are definitely one of the strongest ranged Factions, although Gremlins and Guild can give them a run for their money. (They're also the strongest melee Faction, IMO.)

[Malicte]

In personal play (and this is as much playstyle as anything) my experience tends to match that of Kadeton.  While you definitely can heal the sisters, and doing so is fairly viable, I tend to use both of them, or even all three of them with Vanessa, as "fire and forget" melee missiles.  Oath Keeper on Blood, Ash, and Vanessa leaves you with a trio of (effectively) 4 AP models, 2 with minimum damage 5 and whirlwind, 1 with minimum damage 4.  Vanessa's heal is a (2) action and unless I know it's gonna keep my Viks safe, I can usually find something more effective to do with her.  The most effective way to mitigate incoming damage is often to just facestab the thing causing it.

 

The other issue with healing the Viks that I've found is, Ashes with Survivalist aside, 7 wounds doesn't survive a lot.  Against a dedicated hitter, that's two swings to drop Blood or Vanessa assuming the opponent wants it badly enough, maybe 3 with a soulstone prevent or some poor damage flips.  Generally though, my opponents seem to take the strategy of putting enough damage into the one target to finish it off instead of spreading it around.

 

With the Librarian, since healing is a (1), it's significantly more viable from an AP standpoint.  Problem is still as above, I don't often have multiple sisters hurt since they're all so fragile.

 

I'm interested in trying a more survivable Viks crew though.

[The Zinc Lich]

This all said, I firmly believe that the Outcasts are the strongest ranged attacking Faction and have a tendency to run with that theory.

 

The Outcasts are definitely one of the strongest ranged Factions, although Gremlins and Guild can give them a run for their money. (They're also the strongest melee Faction, IMO.)

 

While the Outcasts definitely lay claim to some of the best ranged enforcers in the game, I've been pretty disappointed in their ranged minion options, especially compared to what the guild has at lower SS costs. The low minimum damage on Freikorpsmen's pistols is a pretty big hurdle to step over, and there certainly doesn't seem to be as much buffing support out there for the Outcast range game compared to the Guild's.

 

The other issue with healing the Viks that I've found is, Ashes with Survivalist aside, 7 wounds doesn't survive a lot.  Against a dedicated hitter, that's two swings to drop Blood or Vanessa assuming the opponent wants it badly enough, maybe 3 with a soulstone prevent or some poor damage flips.  Generally though, my opponents seem to take the strategy of putting enough damage into the one target to finish it off instead of spreading it around.

 

This is actually the reason why I always run with some volume of healing. The Viks are so squishy that if an enemy gets a lucky shot early, they become much easier to deal with. If an Austringer gets a lucky turn 1 raptor strike, something that is not impossible, you *need* to either heal it or spend Soulstones to reduce the damage. Even if you slingshot the sisters into combat and cut everything that costs more than 6 stones to pieces, if your leaders are then killed by a  4 point guild guard, you aren't really trading up in the exchange.

[Kadeton]

While the Outcasts definitely lay claim to some of the best ranged enforcers in the game, I've been pretty disappointed in their ranged minion options, especially compared to what the guild has at lower SS costs. The low minimum damage on Freikorpsmen's pistols is a pretty big hurdle to step over, and there certainly doesn't seem to be as much buffing support out there for the Outcast range game compared to the Guild's.

Outcasts are an enforcer-heavy Faction - almost all of their offensive (ranged and melee) power comes from enforcers and above. The Guild is a minion-heavy Faction that relies on support - while that can be a strength, it also tends to force them to stay close to each other, which is definitely a weakness.

This is actually the reason why I always run with some volume of healing. The Viks are so squishy that if an enemy gets a lucky shot early, they become much easier to deal with. If an Austringer gets a lucky turn 1 raptor strike, something that is not impossible, you *need* to either heal it or spend Soulstones to reduce the damage. Even if you slingshot the sisters into combat and cut everything that costs more than 6 stones to pieces, if your leaders are then killed by a  4 point guild guard, you aren't really trading up in the exchange.

I'd spend the soulstone instead. The primary use of stones in my Viks crew is keeping the Sisters alive long enough to get into a proper melee - anything left over at that point gets used for triggering Whirlwinds.

If the Viks jump in and kill 30+ stones' worth of the enemy (not unusual) and then somehow both get killed by a 4-stone Guard (very unusual) that's still 100% worth it in a straight-up exchange.

I'm with Malicite - I tend to find that there's very little opportunity to heal the Viks. They go from full health to dead in the blink of an eye if they get into a bad situation. It's way easier to keep them fully healed by ensuring that everything that can threaten them is bleeding on the ground instead. Sometimes Red/Black Jokers happen, but that's Malifaux.

[MasterDisaster]

It's the turn both Sisters pop Oathkeeper for Fast and fly across the board to rip out the heart of the enemy crew. You set up with your Malifaux Child casting Sisters in Fury. Vik B has a 14" threat range (16" through terrain if you took Scramble based on board setup) and gets three attacks with a to damage which can all trigger Whirlwinds

 

4 Attacks if shes within LoS of Ash Vik. 2 Normal, 1 Fast & 1 Melee Expert 

[Kadeton]

4 Attacks if shes within LoS of Ash Vik. 2 Normal, 1 Fast & 1 Melee Expert 

True, but she's only got a 9" threat range then - if you're that close to the enemy already, you can usually pull off a Companion activation instead and really wreak havoc. I generally assume you'll need one Walk to get into Charge range.

[Malicte]

I'd spend the soulstone instead. The primary use of stones in my Viks crew is keeping the Sisters alive long enough to get into a proper melee - anything left over at that point gets used for triggering Whirlwinds.

 

This is precisely my experience.  Soulstones to prevent until engaged.  You'll even get a tiny little heal for your trouble on the slingshot with Blood Vik's first kill, so you can probably soulstone prevent and even if a wound or two gets through, you're okay.  As long as she isn't at the point where something takes her down super easily (Say, 5 wounds or less) you're golden.