Regelridderen

Well, I’m looking forward to getting him painted up and on the table and seeing for myself 😊

Both of you @Paddywhack and @Maniacal_cackle seem to focus on his Why hello, Love -ability, but I’m already enjoying that with Seamus. I just have a hard time seeing how Sebastian’s use of it is that much better? Especially to merit losing out on the .50 and Hidden Passage?

Seems like an interesting character, but also very bubbly and while not having the tools to go beyond the bubble like Seamus. 

I like Kade/Teddy.

They can do some spectacular things, like this :

Kade Lures in Rusty Alice - giving her slow and pushing off a bridge over an acid lake.

Getting fast he follows up by hitting her twice - getting masks and giving Teddy coordinated attacks.

Alice found herself at 1 health in a pool of acid 😎

I’d go with the crews that draw beginners in : Nightmare, Family, Redchapel (for the ladies), Amalgamation, Trixie, Performers, Apex and Wastrel.

It’s got steam punk, creepy kids, cowboys, weird science, showgirls and then tailor towards your friends.

Just returned from a 3 round tournament, where I brought my Ressurs. 

Round One

My opponent announced Outcast that I never play against. So I chose my trusty J-Dawg

Jack + Ligeia + 8 Stones

Monty

Jaakuna

2x Hanged w. GST

Guilty

vs. 

Levi II + 2 Waifs

Pale, Mech, Dead Rider

2 Scavengers

And as you might imagine this was an uphill battle for a crew relying on Terrifying? Wp- and Mv attacks. So I went for Catch and Release on a Hanged and Claim Jump on Jaakuna. And things just went downhill from there. Jack never managed to get sn upgrade out, and the Hard to wound on the riders were rough to handle. The biggest thing was killing off Levi and scoring Catch and Release, but my opponent managed both Catch, Assassinate and three Strat points.

SCORE 2 - 7

Round Two

I’d planned using the Spirit Walker for this, but my opponent was soloing a Lucius crew, he just had borrowed for the tournament from me, and we’d just discussed his approach before the pairing was announced. So instead I went with Seamus. 

Seamus + Copycat + 6 stones

Sybelle

2 Dead Doxies

Nurse

Bete

Yin

vs. 

Lucius + Scribe + 2 Stone

Agent 46

Alan Reid

2 Lawyers

Executioner w. Leadlined Coat

Investigator

I made a Doxy and the Nurse Martyrs, and decided for Breakthrough. 

My opponent sent the Investigator / Executioner / Lawyer off to my right flank, and the investigator was just a couple of inches from making contact with a symbol, when the copycat intervened and suddenly Seamus turned up with his .50 BAM!

The rest met on the left flank, as my opponent combined the Scribe / Alan / 46 into an anti-cheat ball of death. Killing off Yin, but Sybelle manage to tear the agent to shreds with her whip, and then Seamus returned and blew the Scribe apart with his .50 and scored a symbol.  

Alan ran to grab a symbol, and fearing that she might survive, a badly hurt doxy ran to have him kill her, but she proved a better fighter and just slowed him counter to the purpose. 

Lucius and executioner engaged the other Doxy and Sybelle, but didn’t manage to put some real damage out while Seamus found a passage behind them, dumped a scheme marker, ate a symbol and put 6 wounds on the executioner with his .50 - and then we ran out of time. 

SCORE 3 - 1

Final Round

Once again I faced off vs. Levi II, and this time I brought out the Spiritwalker. 

Yan Lo + Soul Porter + 6 Stones

Izamu

Toshiro w Whisper

Manos

2 Komainu

Mindless Zombie

vs

Levi II + 2 Waifs + 0 Stones

Hooded, Pale, Dead

Ashes and Dust

3 x Abomination

The table was a nightmare filled with large buildings and woods. My center was dominated by a couple of acid lakes. 1 can landed in the center, two on my left flank and one on the far right. 

The center became a mess with abominations, the hooded and pale rider vs Izamu and Toshiro and the Zombie turned Ashigaru. Yet after making his first Ashigaru, Toshiro was unable to draw anything above a 3. So by the end of turn 3, my center had folded. 

The left flank considered of Yan and his two Komainu facing off vs. Dead Rider and Levi II. It was a tough struggle, as both masters and the dead rider died, before the pale and hooded could clean up. Meanwhile Manos and Ashes fought hard. It took till round 4 for Manos to kill the thing, and then was able to kick the can 8” and dump a couple of scheme markers.  Ensuring I scored 2 points for strategy and 1 for Spread them out. 

SCORE 3 - 5

Luckily, proper tournaments aren’t won through games, but from the quality of your paint jobs, and I won best painted - and got third last in standing. 

Learnings

Yan Lo might be bonkers, but damn Levi II and his riders are nasty. The abundant armor and HtW is hard to deal with - not to mention the speed. And you might be able to deal with one rider, but when three are getting spooled up on tokens, they go nuts, while the abominations just drain you slowly, while preventing healing.

I realise now, I should gone harder on them, remembering that Yan is quite adept at stunning models, which would have made quite the difference. Instead, I got to keen on burning them with his dogs, which of course was a struggle. And when I faced him with Daw… I should really have looked carefully on my crew. Maybe Drowned and Crooked. 

2 hours ago, DeadManTalking said:

What are your go to for scheme running in a Daw crew?

I’d say, leave the heavy scheme running for other masters. Jack’s more a kill first, ask how to scheme later -guy.

19 hours ago, DeadManTalking said:

I have now played about 5 games with Yan, some of them in a tournament, and while I do think he is very strong I also think there are plenty of ways to counter him. Especially if your opponent has any clue what to expect from his crew. If I announce Yan2 in my play group now my opponents immediately take anti-armor tech, Shockwave attacks, irreducible damage, and stuns. Now to be fair a lot of that was already in a lot of the lists I face regularly anyways but now my opponents are aware of the need for it against Yan2. What this typically means is Yan is going to get about 2 turns of speedy movement before my opponent hard focuses the dogs off the board. Even that's not 100% guaranteed if my opponent has a way of alphaing across the board with something designed to kill them. In the tournament I faced a TT player who has several more games of Yan2 under his belt and he took Youko2 and McCabe2, McCabe came all the way across the board by turn 2 and had killed 3 of my 4 minions. To be fair, that was only my second game with Yan2 so I only had a base knowledge of what they do. My point is though, Yan2 is very good, potentially even one of if not the best Rezzer Master in my opinion. But he is a far cry from broken.

It’s not like the Tomb Delver is any less action efficient. And that’s really the point isn’t it? Pre-titles, balance was very much dependent on no model getting more than three actions, and Focus engines like Shamans and Tuckett got hit with nerf bats to keep them in line. Yet, with titles we suddenly get models with 10 actions worth of efficiency.

Rules-breaking is less about balance than it is whether models adhere to the same design principles. Playing Yan Lo, you’re not really playing the same game as the original masters. 

6 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

Right - but what I'm saying is Yan2 doesn't necessarily need a nerf (well, maybe a small one), but the Komainu does (well, Empty Vessel).

Ashigaru are fine, but they are nothing compared to an Empty Vessel Komainu with Yan2 tagging along. Try Yan2 without any Komainu and I don't think he'll seem as broken. Even Gokudo, which really are never taken with Yan2, are not as good a replacement as Komainu. Empty Vessel giving Mv+2 and + to all duels really takes Yan2 over the edge. 
 

To me it’s more the combination of handing out focus with flame breath.

3 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

While he's very good, there are plenty of other masters that are also bonkers good. I'm curious - please try him without any Komainu and tell me what you think. I really think the problem is Empty Vessel being too good in combination with his Reliquary. Even as you said in the BatRep (if it's the one I'm thinking of), your opponent killed one of your Komainu early and that made you feel some pressure. If he had killed both Komainu or you hadn't brought any at all, how would it have felt? I'm sure he's still good, but without Empty Vessel and Armor 2 (maybe Terrifying and Regen2 in Ressurs), I don't think he'd be seen as such a big issue.  

Of course his efficiency is dependent on the komainu, but the point is he has his komainu. And you can always bring Toshiro and Ashigaru as a backup to get his reliquary.

Just had my second game with Spiritwalker - and I’m still convinced that he is broken as ****.

Went from the opponents deployment zone and back to my own in one turn, scoring Breakthrough and killing two models on the way.

You can check out the batrep here : 

Still prepping for a tournament with my Ressurs, and today I had the pleasure of running into Mama Z in the swamp. 

Schemes and Strategy : 

Symbols of Authority w. Flank Deployment

Breakthrough, Vendetta, Hidden Martyrs, Let them bleed, Research Mission. 

THE TABLE

Lots blocking impassable rocks, and a few severe craters. So no hazardous or concealing terrain. My opponent won initiative and took a flank that was fairly blocked off and difficult to enter, while mine was open and cut in half by a big wall - good choice. 

TACTICS - YAN LO

Going with the Spiritwalker, I just wanted a fast game. Manos and Yin readied themselves for chasing symbols and scoring Breakthrough. While my second Komainu and Sloth got Hidden Martyr duty. 

Spiritwalker + Soul Porter

Manos

Yin w. Grave Spirit’s Touch

2 x Komainu w. The Whisper - I wouldn’t want Zoraida1 messing with their heads. 

Sloth - forgetting he only has synergy with undead and only could affect Yin. 

8 Stones

TACTICS - ZORAIDA

Zoraida had some convoluted plan involving spawn mother and spamming gupps and eggs markers. Setting Spawn Mother and a Flying pigment up as Hidden martyrs, while a Silurid and the First Mate were to grab Strat markers and score Breakthrough. And then ruin my crew totally with 24 cups of coffee. 

Zoraida2

First Mate

Bedeviled Kettle w. 12 Cups

Spawn Mother w. 12 Cups

Silurid

Gatreaux Bokor

Flying Piglet

4 Stones

THE GAME

Round One saw me messing up my opponents plans by Staggering Zoraida, Kettle with Manos through a summoned Effigy. Still he managed to get the Kettle up and engaging Manos, Yin, Yan Lo and a Komainu. The Spawn Mother and a Red Joker managed to kill off my spare Komainu, and I really felt a nasty pressure. 

Round Two I did my worst to push back, and with a concerted effort, Yan managed to take out the Kettle before it got to act. Meanwhile Spawn Mother and the first Mate aimed for my deployment zone. Sloth passed out his final Fast and turned around to engage the Mate. While I managed to engage Zoraida in her deployment zone with his Komainu. Yin scored first point of the strategy. While Manos managed to break free from the flying pig that was thing him up and charging Zoraida. 

Score 1 - 2

Round Three Zoraida put up a fight vs. Yan Lo, a Komainu. It took the lives of two mannequins and the Gatreaux Bokor as well, before Zoraida caved in to Burning at the end of the round. Meanwhile Sloth was thing up the First Mate, and Spawn Mother scored another Strat marker and started dumping scheme markers in my deployment. The soul porter engaged the pig and thus allowed Yin to speed ahead and score both Breakthrough and take her second Strat marker

Score 3 - 3

Round Four Yan Lo managed to go from one deployment zone to the other. Killing the Flying Piglet and the First Mate on the way. The Silurid emerged from hiding, taking the third symbol and aimed for the second, but no longer engaging the Piglet allowed the soul porter block of the final symbol with his 2” threat zone. Meanwhile Manos littered Zoraida deployment zone with scheme markers and Yin took the third symbol. Unfortunately my opponent revealed Hidden Martyrs w. The Piglet and Spawn Mother - a move I should have seen coming a mile away. 

Score 4 - 5

Round Five with only a Silurid and the Spawn Mother left, there was little hope for the swamp fiends. And surely the Spawn Mother was wiped clean off the board with in seconds by a charge from Sloth. The Silurid had a feeble chance of taking out the soul porter and removing the symbol, but after it’s charge failed the game ended, as Manos took the fourth symbol. 

FINAL SCORE 6 - 5

-

AFTERMATH

To no surprise the Spiritwalker is still bonkers, able to go from one deployment to the other and killing two models on the way. Just crazy. 

My opponent did have me sorted though, the 24 cups of coffee was nasty and the bonus actions are just so integral to the Spiritwalker. My luck was that he chose to send the Spawn mother to scheme in my deployment zone - hoping I would kill the Piglet. 

My speed and damage potential was just superior to my opponent. It wasn’t that I played better, I just had better tools. 

MAN OF THE MATCH

To my surprise Sloth actually had a huge effect. The two times he made Yin fast made a huge difference in putting damage on the Kettle and allowing her to reach a symbol. While he was quite impressive in neutering the first Mate - who is usually too slippery to deal with.

The Soul Porter come in at a nice second. With two Mv6 models to empower, he really gives the whole crew an impressive reach. 

Getting the full keyword is generally the best approach to learning a crew. Every model has their niche and use, and learning when and where to leverage these will give you the best feel for the game.

Also Mama Z likes to Obey her own models, so big and beefy bruisers are good to bring in, whether it's Hinamatsu or Hoody Rider etc.

I regularly use two Sorrows, so I wouldn’t mind getting a third for free. 

False Witnesses would be all over my Lucius lists. 

So I'm prepping for a tournament, while trying to learn how to use my ressurs. So what would be more natural than to pit two of my masters against each other to find out who to field, and how to play the scenarios.

Schemes & Strategy : 

Turf War w. Standard Deployment.

Detonate Charges, Assassinate, Spread them out, Catch and Release, Claim Jump.

THE TABLE

The table were dominated by two large forest on the left flank, while big rocks jutted out of the ground on the right. Pyre markers littered the scene providing hazardous terrain, along with some scattered walls and crates. One of the forest completely engulfed a strategy marker, while the other forest made going into the centre from the strategy marker better left for fliers and incorporeals.

TACTICS – Team J-Dawg

J-Dawg just wanted to do a little simple killing, choosing Assassinate, and then making a note that his minions are on par with Henchmen he picked Catch and Release. He chose to deploy Jakuuna Ubume to grab the marker behind the forest so she could just ignore it, as she'd glide towards the middle. Montressor then started on the other flank to grab the other objective, while the rest set up to head for the centre.

Jack Daw + Lady Ligeia & 8 Stones

Montressor

Jaakuna Ubume

2 Hanged w. GST

Guilty

TACTICS – THE LO GANG

Yan Lo saw a chance to exploit his superior mobility and action economy in Yin and Manos, and so chose Spread them out, thinking he and Izamu could then handle the centre and let Izamu score Claim Jump. Like daw he set up with most of the gang going for the centre, while Manus took rocky flank and Yin the forested.

Yan Lo + Soul Porter & 5 Stones

Manos

Toshiro

Izamu

Chiaki

Yin

Mindless Zombie

THE GAME

Round One Daw forced Yan Lo to start out and he sent the mindless zombie, unpacked his team, sending out Manos and Yin to grab the strat markers, while heading for the middle. Chiaki decided to put Izamu's reliquary on Manos, preparing him for a fight. Daw let Jakuuna and Montressor grab their markers, while using the guilty to bring himself and the hanged up to the middle. He handed out his upgrades to Izamu and Yan Lo, and ended up going across the middle to fight Yan Lo bringing a hanged with him - a definite overstretch blows were exchanged but no real damage done, despite Yan deviously picking up his Ash Ascendant. Meanwhile Toshiro turned the Zombie into a more thematic ashigaru and sent it to engage Lady Ligeia and the guilty just behind the middle.

Round Two Yan Lo grabbed initiative, using Toshiro to heal Yan Lo and Izamu to pound at poor Jack, who just had to dump card after card. Jack in turn used the opportunity to pound poor Yan into within an inch of his life, and Yan Lo still couldn't retaliate proper, because both the Hanged and Jack were too terrifying. Manos, being Ruthless, tried to join in killing Jack, but to no avail. But realising the potential that Yan Lo had, Jack had a Hanged kill him prematurely, capping his victory max by one. Ubume strode towards the middle, while Yin, empowered by the Soul Porter made a move and stole the objective marker Ubume had taken, but it was flipped again when Ligeia and the guilty managed to kill the summoned Ashigaru.

SCORE 1 - 1 Both scored a point for strat, while Jack got the end part of Assassinate.

Round Three with Yan Lo dead, Toshiro did his best to support Izamu by raising another Ashigaru, but Izamu had to deal with too many nooses around his neck. Chiaki crossed the middle and dumped a scheme marker, while the Guilty realised what was happening and tried to stop Yin, as he dumped a couple more. Manos killed off Daw, but suddenly Montressor arrived along with a hanged and the two pounded him down to one life.

SCORE 3 - 2 The Hanged score the reveal of Catch and Release, Yin and Chiaki, scored Spread them out, along with a second point of Strategy.

Round Four Manos got killed, as Montressor just pulsed out his Asphyxiation aura and then went to win the Strategy marker. The two Hanged and Jakuuna tore Toshiro apart – yet not after he had summoned yet another Ashigaru (he cheated in the 12 of crows on all three summons). Meanwhile Yin had a field day flipping yet another turf marker in Daws back field and the lone guilty had no chance of stopping her - While Chiaki proceeded to cross the half and dump a new scheme marker.

SCORE 4 - 3 As the Lo gang scored the third strategy marker, and the Daw crew the second.

Round 5 Yin and Chiaki collaborated on dumping scheme markers, which the Guilty were unable to stop. Neither the Hanged nor Jakuuna had any chance of getting home, nor to win a third strat marker - only to neutralise it. So Daw crew scored the End of Catch and Release and Assassinate, while the Lo gang scored the End of Spread them out.

SCORE 5 - 5

-

AFTERMATH

So a glorious defeat to both sides left me non the wiser for going forward. Yet still. I learned the importance of not overextending my masters, as both Daw and Yan got a little too careless at first. Daw's primary focus should be to get those curses out there to ensure that his crew has something to work with, while Yan Lo should just accept that he is too frail without his ascendancy. Playing more cautious would have allowed Lo to leave the fighting to Toshiro and Izamu, and I think, he'd have gotten the upper hand. Yet again, with more upgrades out the Daw crew's card engine would have been smoking, and that's usually a bad experience for the opponent. What really gave the ancestors the upper hand was two Ruthless models, yet I made a mistake in dumping Izamu's reliquary on Manos, so he was forced to join the fray rather than work the schemes.

So if anything, there was a lot of lessons learned. I'm leaning towards Yan Lo in the tournament - especially if vs Ressurs or Neverborn.

MAN OF THE MATCH

I gotta say Toshiro (and his zombie). He was lucky getting the 12 of crows on hand and bringing out 18 stones worth of models. I think the use of a mindless zombie for him is great. It allows him to get the corpse marker into position. I know people like the more expensive corpse generators, but Foul-mouthed Motivation is just as nice an ability, and you can't guarantee those 12s on hand after all.

Yin is a close second. Her speed and interact allowed for turning a loss into a draw. It's a real strength of the Lo crew being able to change gears within a few activations.

It’s not your list. 

It’s the board and the objectives. 

-

But as others have said. Leverage Explorers weakness in low Wp to deal with Terrifying and Kirai2s forced summoning if he likes to clump up. Seamus is perfect for dealing with the mutts, and once they’re gone Cooper is in a sore spot. 

Another thought I had would be running Toshiro over Montressor?

Most of Jacks crew is likely to be minions, and so they stand to gain from Daimyo’s Gift and his Leadership. While Daw himself can benefit from Foul Mouthed Motivation. With cards being JD’s biggest resource having +flips and a healer present will really cut down some of the pressure I imagine.

How integral would you say Monty is? In my game I found him ‘nice’, but he was still just a bruiser, and Jack and the Hanged had that covered.

@HomelessOne I started out a fair few masters out post nerf, and I’d say, I’m happier playing them that way, because without those changers it would have been easy mode. Ivan feels like he’s good fun and that he’s got good potential still, he must have been absolutely oppressive before. Dreamer was my first master, and he definitely needed the nerf - what mostly bothers me now is that his Lucid Dream is mostly a wasted mechanic by now, where it really drove the thematic feel before, but the balance is better.

Daw is not a straightforward crew to play. You really need to manage your hand and get your activation order right. He doesn’t feel broken. I’d just get the core and the Hanged box and try him out for cheaps.

19 hours ago, Autumn King said:

…I don't like my friends, I like to run two.

My friends are grade A arses, they deserve to have a couple of hanged stuffed down their throats. Those were awesome - and I’m switching between 8ish keywords ATM, so it’s not like it’s a thing 🤭

I didn’t get much action from Jaakuna in my game, mostly because of terrain, but still she was the ball carrier and she scored my Claim Jump. I’m pretty sure she’d held her own had she been engaged.

And Here’s a bunch of zombies 😊

Making direct comparisons to other Obey masters is a little iffy.

Yan might only be good at Obeying his minions, but…

The quality of those minion actions is out of this world.

MOVE : moves a dog 7” and Yan upwards of 10”, while handing out focus.

CHARGE : pushes a dog 7” and Yan upwards of 10”, while handing out focus to Dam5 attack with +flips

Flame Breath : One of my favorite actions in all crews it is avaible. And with the focus it’s very easy to achieve a Dam4(3) with and handing out burning. 

The only balancing factor is that those minions are ‘only’ Stat5.

-

And he’s got a whole crew to do work as well - and other options besides Obey.

@Autumn King @Cranky Old Man I got a good feel for the crew basics, but I do have a hard time fitting in the Drownedcand the Crooked Men? Do they see any use with you?

4 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I mean, you don't normally consider Mah Tucket as having ten Actions when she pulses Focus to her crew on the first turn.

Oh yes I do

-

No, but it is a way to put the efficiency of Yan Lo2 in perspective.

1 hour ago, ConfuciuSay said:

I guess I just don't see what's so busted about him. He seems good, don't get me wrong but he doesn't seem game breaking in any way compared to some other masters I've seen.

It’s simple math.

He can dump a scheme marker and make a move in one action - basically two actions.

Then make three Obeys that dole out focus - so that’s another six actions.

Then his dog can have him make another Obey - two actions more.

So that’s the equivalent of ten actions - while being able to jump across the board. 

(Not to mention what a Flame Breath’ing dog can do with bonus flips and focus to a crew that’s standing a little too close. That Yan eats markers for cards, and that he can sculpt the top of his deck).

-

And I’ve got opponents ‘complaining’ about Seamus being able to do 4 actions 😄

59 minutes ago, ConfuciuSay said:

Yan2 is the next master I plan on learning after I've got more games in with Schtook1. Did you find anything particularly tricky about using Yan2? Were you using more AP on his gun or Obey?

Obeying the dogs were the primary use. I just used his ranged attack to stun Ivan. Had there been armored models, it might have been different. 

And there is nothing tricky about it - apart from Mv duels. In many ways he is the least interesting master around, and he really need to be hit hard with a nerf bat and probably be redesigned from the ground up. 

Yan Lo is good enough, at least you need to make choices, but the Spiritwalker just needs to get on the table and you’re halfway to victory.