WWHSD

Unless they're Insignificant. Mouse says "Hi".

And then you’ve got a shitstorm of complaints from all the people that bought models based on those initial keyword lists that ended up changing during the beta.

I can see that sales might take a hit but I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that the majority of the player base won’t purchase anything new until M3E releases. People are still going to be playing M2E for some time and none of the models current range of models are going away. There are only a few models on my Malifaux wishlist that I’ve moved to a “wait until M3E” status.

There’s not really too much purchase planning you can do for M3E until more inormation on model keywords and their stats are available. Depending on where Wyrd is in the development cycle, that information may not even be finalized yet. Based on the info that we’ve gotten so far, I think the only change I’m going to make is that I’m not going to buy the merc models or models from a master’s expanded hiring pool that I’ve had my eye on.

You probably want to talk to the folks that run those tournaments and see what they intend to do. I’m guessing that they won’t want to make any commitments until after M3E and whatever the accompanying Gaining Grounds type document has been released and they have had a chance to read them. As far as I know most “Masters” events and their qualifying events have nothing to do with Wyrd (other than prize and other organized play support).

How does the ToS pass mechanic work?

Is there any reason that models like the Nightmare crews need to continue to represent the same models in M3E that they did in M2E?

As long as the using the pass mechanic is a meaningful choice that needs to be made, it won't completely invalidate the choice to bring lower cost models to pad out an activation count. If a smaller crew is given a limited pool of pass tokens that have to last the entire game or if there is a cost associated with playing the token it would make passing an option but one that isn't going to be the default choice.

Wyrd has answered quite a few question for people about M3E in the Third Edition Threadnought. I thought it would be useful to pull these little nuggets of useful information into a post that's easier to refer to. I won't limit what I include in the post to answers that appear in that thread, but will only include information that I can link to a statement by a Wyrd representative. I've paraphrased the questions and have quoted relevant parts of the replies from Wyrd and then linked to the reply which may provide some additional detail that was not quoted. If you see anything that needs to be added, please add a comment to this thread with a link to the post. Q:When will the Beta start? A: "We likely won't be doing much with the Beta until after Gencon." A2: "The playtest isn't beginning until after next week." (Aug-9) Q: When is M3E releasing? A: "We're not announcing a public date at this time, as we want to ensure that we have the option of extending playtest if  needed. Our first priority is to ensure that M3E is fun and balanced, and some wiggle room will help us in that regard. So apologies that I can't give you a fixed date at this time!" Q: What's up with the missing masters (Ramos/Lilith/Collodi/Nico)? A:"All of these Masters (and their totems) will receive updated stat cards in M3E in a special "Dead Man's Hand" pack. By default, they will not be tournament legal (due to being absent in the story), but an option will exist to allow these "Dead Man's Hand" Masters to be played in tournaments that wish to allow it." Q: Are the Dead Man's Hand cards going to be balanced? A: "They will be balanced for competitive play." Q: What's up with thematic crews? A: "Without going into too much detail just yet, hiring within a Master's keyword will be affordable and will provide options that reinforce that Master's central theme. If you want to go outside a Master's keyword, you'll be able to do so within your faction, albeit at a minor penalty." Q: Will there be models that all masters in a faction can hire without penalty? A: "Most models will have keywords, but every faction also has some 'Versatile" models, such as the various Effigies and Emissaries. Versatile models can be hired within their faction without penalty." Q: Are mercs still going to be a thing? A: "Mercenaries in the M2E sense of the word are going away." Q: Will M3E still have upgrades? A: "In general, there will be fewer but more meaningful upgrades." Q: I didn't see Paralyze on the list of conditions, is gone from the game? A: "... Paralyze is gone." Q: What is the symbol in the text for the Stunned condition? A: "the symbol for Bonus Actions (essentially, your M2E (0) Actions)." Q: Will rules for Avatars be in M3E? A: "There are currently no plans to carry Avatars forward into 3rd edition." Q: Will the app be required to play M3E? A: "I just don't like the idea of making the app mandatory." Q: Are the Elevation rules going to change? A: “Elevation rules will indeed work differently than in M2E.” Q: Are model counts in crews going to change? A: “... I’d expect average model counts to come down slightly.“ Q: Will M3E have a new timing chart for duels? A: "Yup." Q: Can models have multiple key words? A: "Absolutely, though it doesn't happen all that often." Q: What is the penalty for hiring models that don't share a keyword with a crew's leader? A: "Hiring a model that does not share a keyword with your leader is at +1 Cost." Q: Do masters still get a Soulstone cache? How many Soulstones will a crew start with? A: "Cache is no longer a thing; you start with Soulstones equal to the amount you did not spend during hiring." Q: Does each crew get a master and totem for free and have 50SS to hire? A: "That is correct." [AWP] Q: Will promo models be getting updated cards? A: "Yes, all the way back to first edition." [AWP] Q: Will feedback on the new card size make you guys change your mind about it? A: “The new card size is here to stay. Bringing it up in the Beta won't really change that.” [AWP] Q: How does summoning interact with the new pass tokens. A: “When a model is Summoned, the opponent gains a Pass Token.” [AWP] Q: Are the rules for shooting into engagement going to be changing? A: "Yup." Q: Will cheating be permitted on negative flips? A: "Nope." Q: The Judge is going to be okay, right? A: "The Judge was totally killed." [AWP] signifies that the link is to A Wyrd Place Facebook post. Rules Reference Card:

If they want to sell much of their new terrain, the rules for elevation and building interiors need a lot of work.

I don't mind if the action starts first round, it's the massive alpha strikes that I don't enjoy. If they can keep those in check I think the game can still be focused on scoring objectives rather than smashing faces.

No problem. This thread moves pretty fast and it's easy to miss stuff. The biggest reason I don't think being in Dead Man's Hand means the character has been permanently written out of the game is because it's a lot of effort to make and play test a new card for the models. Wyrd could have very easily said that Ramos was a legal proxy for Hoffman, Lilith for Nekima, Nico for Von Schtook, and Collodi for Marcus. Totems are legal proxies for the totems of the master that their master became a proxy for. It would have been a hell of a lot less work and probably riled up about the same number of folks.

There you go ...

Twist: Crossroads 7 is it’s own faction and all of the members have a Master stat card and normal stat card. Whichever member you pick to lead sets the keywords for the crew.

I don’t think Mason ever stated what the point of Dead Man’s Hand was. He answered a question about missing masters, explained what happened to them in the lore, told us that there would be a Dead Man’s Hand pack of cards that would include cards for those masters. He then told us that while balanced for tournament play those cards were not legal for tournament use without TO approval. It may not be meant as a rotation scheme but it certainly looks like it could easily function as one based on the information that we have. That’s all beside the point I was trying to make. I don’t know what the point of Dead Man’s Hand is, a rotation scheme is just one possibility. You made a statement about bringing masters back from the dead entirely defeating the whole point of Dead Man’s Hand. Outside of a handful of people that mostly work for Wyrd, no one knows what the point of it is and what the point of it is could easily change a year after M3E is released.

We don’t actually know what the point of Dead Mans Hand is. For all we know it’s there to provide a way for Wyrd to remove a model or upgrade from tournament rotation.

Most of those are through upgrades or and not a part of the master’s core mechanic.

It looks like there's going to be a whole shit-ton of terrain markers on the board in M3E. There are 6 masters whose teaser text calls out the terrain markers that they use. Basse - Dust Clouds Reva - Pyre Markers Titania - Severe Underbrush Euripides - Ice Pillars Rasputina - Ice Pillars Kaeris - Pyre Markers

It looks like Perdita's crew can trade in pass tokens to get focused and that Seamus's crew can take the Distracted condition to earn them. I'm wondering if it will be something along the lines of the smaller crew recieving some number of pass tokens at the beginning of the game based on the difference in crew size at the start of the game. Some abilities may grant or replenish the tokens but in general once they've been spent they are gone. That allows a smaller crew to potentially get activation control in a critical turn without completely removing the benefit of bringing a high activation count crew. It makes the decision to pass more meaningful instead of being something that you always do if you can.

I think it would be safe to say that the players at the store I play in that keep up with the lore are in the minority.

We know that Paralyze is no longer going to be a condition but do we actually know that it is going away?

I don't quite hate it but I do consider it a chore required for playing games I enjoy.

I think Amina has a higher potential but depends on activation order and being able to win some duels and needs to spend some AP to do it. Fitzsimmons works just by being in the right place.

It seems like it's much easier to balance other abilities around something that has the potential to do 1 damage at the end of the turn than it is something that could do much more.

Do you have Nekima to go with your Lilith crew.