JDAntoine

Fantastic! Do you think that for the die-hards more can be shaven off personally? Like for the players who want to insert a thin metal sheet below it so they can magnetize their Fireteams if they feel inclined to do so?

Was that with the video of the wobbly mini? I loved that video but I couldn't find it anymore

Love the godzilla vibe, perhaps even some flames could be put onto this model (like he's breathing fire). Could mix the Hordes and Cult really well together that way

I would love to know how hard it is to remove the models from the base aswell :). Love the idea of pre-esembled mini's, just hope they are not a terror to remove from the base to make something cool.

Problem? Have you at all read what I said? We are not underpowered, but work with limited choices.

Awnser: No, it isnt. As above, imbalance is the key. Decide what is allowed to be the best at one thing, apply this pro with a con. Balance is impossible to archive and this is also not my aim. Adding the same quantity for different pros and cons is

Challenge accepted Balance is irrelevant, a good spread of imbalance quantity is. Creating tons of viable options is most certainly posssible. The problems start once you stick every good rule you have on one model, named Fransisco or Austringer. Spread those great abilities in faction and you create viability.

Or you can start allready

This is a limitation put there by yourself. There are several dimensions you can go into without A being better as B, Malifaux is the best example of this which after battles and schemes could even use the currently largely unused option to re-arange top X cards of your Fate deck. I hope this level will also be eventually seen by designers. Malifaux has several unused mediums to their exposal. The Fate deck addaption is just one of them.

If the exuse for pieces 'sucking' is 'because other pieces suck' you have reach the limit of your design.

See the errata for what got removed . Options that where added are related to Lucius, in other words not exclusive to the Guild. It does not make the faction worse. It can be a reason as to why not too many stick with the faction. As mentioned I do not feel we are underpowered, but we have a very select ammount of models who actually see top competative play. The last three do not actually play that differently in their faction at all unless with differently you mean 'better', McMourning is a heavy beater with better Poison interraction in Ressurs, McCabe and Lucius preform their own support. McCabe in TT is argaubly more potent thanks to TT having more potent Minion choices. Due to how Neverborn has very little good ranged choices they gain (ranged) Austringer acces with Lucius.

Not really, again more options got removed than there where gained. Nellie currently is not a proven competative Master. Neither McCabe and McMourning are exclusive to guild, which is the whole point

It removes the early game weakness partially. Numb does not in any way shape or form replace the previous effectiveness of PapaBox. We're discussing DM's and their functionality exclusive to Guild. It's wonderful that Lucius was added to our ranks but the fact remains he allready should have been there. It's a fix for something that simply said was bad design before, it's not like Lucius is a newly added option, if you understand what I mean. It is an improved option. DM's are not bad but they are most certainly not on the same competative flexible level as Austringers for example. For better or worse this Errata was heavily influenced by Nova 2015/2016 and the Guild crew that took both championships with the exact same choices. When you look at Arcanists for example multiple choices are added Errata after Errata, expansion after expansion. Even with the recent Upgrades to Executioners and Dashal I find their inclusion unlikely. Nellie, McCabe, Lucius or general support Masters will make Minions/Enforcers/Henchmen better, this is their job, the point remains that several Guild exclusive choices (also Masters) are not good enough on their own and this shows. So what you are left with is 2-4 high competative choices, some of which are not competatively exlusive to Guild players.

We didn't get Numb, we allready had Numb. It's not so much about what can be done to migate the change but what you recieve in turn of losing an option or three. DM's can be made solid. The real question is if I think it's good design that the one who 'trains them to become a DM in the first place' actually is the worst with them.

Hi Tris, The Guild has become rather predictable for the higher competative levels. The prime reason for this is that the Guild exclusive powerful Masters we have simply said arn't that many and what is exclusive to your faction also makes up your faction 'power'. There are several layers of impact regarding the Death Marshal that seem either be missed or (logically) not fully understand yet by a part of the player groups, which is largely the consequence of players playing several different "personal" builds. However first I'll get into the indirect consequences of the Errata. Death Marshal First we have to start on how you somehow missed the Errata on the DM, he did get changed and is on the list allready. Something that might seem as insignificant as Void is per definition a larger change as Guild players currently give credit for. Other than that (and I'll try to keep it short) this is what indirectly happend to the DM: (NR) Tara became better and with her Death Marshals became better (+) Lucius became better and with him Death Marshals became better (-) Papa Loco's effect became worse and with it Death Marshals became worse (Papa Loco's effect is largely exclusive to the Guild, other than Jack Daw) (-) Francisco's effect became worse and with it Death Marshals became worse (Frank's effect is exclusive to the Guild) Netto result, NR, +, - and -, ergo the Death Marshal became worse for the Guild. The prime reason for me to thake the DM with Papa Loco was not because they became one model, instead it allowed us to have the most potent effect of Papa Loco to be always there and the prime weakness of Papa Loco (early game/exploded/controled kills) to be removed. So this errata brought at least 3 indirect changes to the Death Marshal, even more outside of the Guild. It's difficult to call it stagnation. I see it as the result of not having (or recieving) 'better/alternative' options for a few years. The thing is, Lucius' change is massive but this change is not exclusive to the Guild. The changes applied to both Papa Loco and Francisco are rather exclusive to the Guild as the Papabox combination was exclusive to the Guild. What we see is that Guild has recieved a massive overhaul last Errata but much more has to be done to have Guild gain more options, I hope the test team sees this aswell. In the last Errata the Guild did not gain more options other than Lucius which is also not exclusive to the Guild. Based on the results we have where Guild did competatively preform this is also true. The use for a very small set of used models comes from the small disconnects in many other choices.

No need to worry, even if TOS is not your cup of tea. What I personally like about the statement is how much thought will be put into TOS and how much time it is given. As someone who loves games all I can say is that it's of the utmost importance that every product you make should be given extensive thought and time, which in turn is a serious strain on the funds for working on something that isn't released yet is very costly indeed. If all goes well The Other Side will be a fantastic army game, in my opinion it also has to be. Not only because I like the idea for it but because army games are expensive and expensive goods can only continue to sell if they are of the highest quality, this applies to the whole product, from models to rules.

Thought of the day: I think Guild can play on a high competative level but with less faction-only-tools as most other factions can. The one who do play on this competative level with Guild-only stuff are Sonnia and Perdita. If we have to put a name to our weaknesses I would say there are 3-ish, 1. Guardsman, 2. Enforcers and 3. Death Marshals. Which in turn make our crews very predictable. There remains to be a severe disconnect between what Guardsman supposed to do (lorewise) versus what they bring to the table. All non-Austringer Guardsman have a pairing/chained design that currently is not seen in other factions and is something I can't deem excellent design for the simple reason that it removes the advantage of being able to customize your crew pre-battle. As the only way to be certain you have something going on with those synergies is by having a pre-build Guardsman themed list. Next to Austringers the Guild Hounds also serve a purpose but this purpose is largely exclusive to Luna (McCabe). Other than Guardsman (who should be a large part of our identity) we also still have a large slew of Henchmen and Enforces who for lack of better words just feel a point (or two) too high. Samual, Dashal, Exorcist, Handler, more can technically be added and lastly we have Guild Marshals who are suprisingly lackluster with the queen of Guild Marshals, Lady Justice. The Death Marshal, who was potent got indirectly Cuddled... What this leads to insn't an underpowered faction but pre-filtered options. Unfortunatly most choices available can be crossed instantly because they would lead to obnoxious high cost pre-builds, leading to 7 guy crews which in most cases is pretty far from ideal, also under GG 2017. Things like Reporters/Witchling Thralls excite the Guild, not because they are that incredibly good but because it has been a while for us to recieve anything worthwhile in Minion form. The future of Guild is looking decently bright but does not seem to remove the predictabilty of our competative crew compositions. Which is only reinforced with very true quotes like:

A little! But it's also a logical outcome of the design. If the old Governor General kept the ties between his strongest assets strong the Guild as a whole could have remained connected. What we see is that the old GG was so self focused that a large part of his trust into others was a severe misjudgment. If it wasn't for Lucius and McCabe then the old GG could still have reigned. I do believe that Franco Marlow will not make the same mistake and I do hope his design will lead to a 'Guild faction purist'. I largely agree, but perhaps even more interestingly, Guild and Ten Thunders have a ton of Dual Faction Masters but it isn't strictly clear for newer players that this is the case. Even Nellie can be deemed a Guild/Outcast Master. It's currently only Lady Justice, Sonnia and Perdita who are 'faction purists' with all others being mixed into something else, one way or another. So perhaps because of that, the fact that Wave 1 was the only 'full Guild Master' Wave Wyrd is considering a newer design. As stated before I have high hopes for a Summoner Master named Franco Marlow. The fact that we have no real use for non-Austringer Guardsmen in itself really is a missing part in 'Guild' identity. All Guild models that work well arn't typical 'Guild Guards'. This in turn makes Guild non-typical, while even the mixed Ten Thunders have a clear definition of what Ten Thunder models are, while their Masters are roughly as dual faction as ours a ton of TT Minions work really well. We can't really say that. Being the human bad guy isn't so much a problem, as long as they are 'bad ass' in design. Nellie was a bit of a miss on that part and again I think our truest 'bad asses' are only found in Wave 1. All the others are just too mixed into different factions aswell. I think we manage to remain strong and I think you have some serious valid points regarding a lot of our design. As is I too believe that in some of the cuddles another thing could have been given in return, likely boosts in other 4 to 6 cost Minions. Lucius became good, which is great! Lucius is also as Guild/Neverborn as they come, so if you like Mimics or Neverborn, your still likely want to play Neverborn instead

Exact, too many different individuals and it becomes difficult to identify. This is totally different from being underpowered but could explain as to why players dont stick with Guild forever.

Great video and pieces used for it. Thanks for sharing

In retrospect it's very likely that at a given point the re-design of Lucius mend something else had to be changed aswell. Guild has recieved the most massive changes this edition likely due to how at the last point it was very much painted into a particular corner. I think all pieces that where directly changed remain totally viable. I do believe that the Death Marshal should have recieved a small bump in responce to Papa Box not being very interesting for him anymore and the transporting of Papa was an excellent and thus competative option. As a Guild player I don't believe we are boring but I can understand as to why others would think this to be the case. Afterall Guild is likely the most vanilla flavoured of factions? No real scary monsters, no real scary machines, undead or demons? In any case my prime reason to pick Guild had much more to do with the symbol as anything else and I happened to stick with them basically... What I do think is also the case is that most of the time we have to rely on Austringers to do the job well. There are no real 6 Scrip comparables anymore and those are the ones we are usually looking for. This is not to say we are an underpowered faction but this is to say that I do feel our competative choices arn't massive and in certain cases even exclusively competative to a single Master. Top down, small opinion on all our models Lady J - Cool design but M1E had a cooler model for her, in terms of Masters she doesn't really scare anyone as a 'beater Master' Sonnia - Our Queen essentially, awesome but also very 'unique' to our faction. Unlike Rasputina we don't have a very flavourful competative theme open for her. Thralls certainly help... Perdita - Love her design but also feels a bit like an odd one out in our faction McMourning - Practically more Resser as Guild, missed option to add Guild interactions with him by adding more 'Guild Coroner' Hoffman - Practically more Arcanist as Guld, might recieve more robots Lucius - Confirmed Neverborn in disguise McCabe - Confirmed TT in disguise Nellie - Love her design but is something totally 'new' So in general I would say that Lady J and Nellie feel the most fitting to Guild and Dita and Sonnia most certainly are Guild aswell but in general the faction's identity is very mixed. Now this is certainly true for more factions but it also means that even within the Guild there are splinters who feel connected with something. Some Guild players for example don't even like Sonnia or Perdita.... I believe that the massive mix of characters generally removes some of the faction identity and because of that not too many players actually indentify with the faction, where with others you can for: - Neverborn are neverborn, demons and 'monsters' - Ressurectionists are ressurectionists, necromancers and undead - Arcanists are arcanists, magic users and machines - Gremlins are gremlins, pigs and funstuff - Outcasts are a mixed bag of outlaws, casts and work for money - Ten Thunders are ninja's, samurai and oni So what is Guild? "anti of the above"? "The law"? I honestly can't really specifically say...

@Franchute Currently I either bring Papa Loco with Numb to the World OR a Witchling Thrall. Currently the Death Marshal is removed from the bunch and what I feel like that day is added

I'd say go for it. The Cult is amazingly well designed around their mutations and general 'crazyness' so if you want to have a bunch of half demon half human models you will certainly love to play the Cult of the Everburning Man. I love the look of Gorysche, in general it's incredibly awesome to have a hydra-like model amongst your mutants. I also hope that we'll see some demonic Commanders aswell, somewhere in 2018. Looking very forward to the Court of Two. Also to the creations of the fans, afterall you could use a lot of Malifaux pieces to make Court of Two allready.

Everything in good time

I largely agree, granted I understand the idea and possible concern for it, at the same time I will also say that somehow it does make some sence aswell. Lucius is allready very card hungry and I feel that this part plays into that aswell, in addition it allows him to play more upfield which seems to be the continious intention of his design, which didn't come to light because of his previous 'heavy' restrictions. As I joked about it, it is true that many commented on him being a supposed high power in the Guild and that there was very little that reflected it. I have to admit I missed it last test (non scheme, just fooling around with a small 26 point crew to get a feeling with him) but I cannot say it's technically broken allready... I'd really have to test it. It's certainly powerful, yet most masters are and should be.