KingCrow

I respectfully disagree. What's to stop the Sandeep player from moving the Banasuva right back to where it was and beat some face in or Sandeep just resummoning Banasuva in the same spot he was before? When it gets to turn 3+, finding a useless spot can be hard since models are spread out or engaged all over the board (depending on the strategy). At least with using up Sandeep's Beacon ability you're cutting off a huge access of utility to the crew. Of course the raw damage from Banasuva can be nice but shutting down utility through Beacon helps win games.

True. I guess at least with you using it instead of the Sandeep player, you're forcing him to choose to decide to take the damage, discard a card for the extra Sandeep AP and then do whatever or cheat to block the damage, thus not getting the extra AP. Either way, you're forcing the opponent to play on your terms and not theirs.

Something I just stumbled upon while theory-fauxing: Marcus can be a great way to shut down Sandeep's Beacon ability. Use Alpha to control one of the opponent models and use their AP to use all of Sandeep's Beacon actions (except for a single 0). Not bad considering you use the pull to misplace something, then damage something and then use a zero to probably misplace the model you just used or place a marker where it's not needed. This then probably shuts down his Student of All ability (depending on what zero you use) and further restricts his and his crews utility. Granted, yes, Sandeep still has his own AP to use and such, but by shutting down Beacon, you've cut down on the crews utility and damage. So... who wants to play some Marcus? Lol. Edit: This does bring up a question - if you Alpha a model, use Sandeep's actions by Beacon and get a Tome, does that allow Sandeep to use his Student of All ability? I think the answer is yes so that'll be something to watch out for.

@Ludvig has it correct. She has all those triggers to get multiple attacks but you have to have the exact cards in hand (or stone for triggers) and also have a decent setup on the board to get it to work even if you have the right cards in hand as her triggers push models around a lot. You want to try to get her to attack a lot (especially since she has a minimal damage of 2) but she ends up just venting steam to protect the crew and using the trigger on her Railwalk to bring models along with her across the board. So thus is my reasoning of a subpar master who is great at supporting. Although that one time that you do manage to get the proper set up to get like 4 or more attacks in one AP, you feel like a god. lol.

True, but if I want to blow up scheme markers, I just have a Performer do it since it has greater range and has scarier effects which makes the opponent more willing to cheat in cards. The Saboteurs may be better with Colette since they don't discard the scheme markers when they use their abilities. Either way, Fitzsimmons and the Saboteurs are going to be VERY useful for the "underrated" masters who require additional setup (i.e. Dancing Sabre Colette and Kaeris).

Fitzsimmons using scheme markers and exploding enemies!? Sounds like Colette might have a new best friend to take advantage of all those markers that get thrown about.

I am also an avid Marcus player and absolutely love his play style and aesthetics (although Titania has some badass nature-y aesthetics too). His ability to control almost anything on the board has shut down and frustrated many of my opponents. It's always great to control Seamus and make him use his Gun on his own crew (which counts for his once per turn use) or make Asami go poof because she has Flicker. Marcus is the master that I usually take to tournaments to surprise people because most anticipate Sandeep and have never really encountered Marcus so get thrown off when they see all the crazy stuff Marcus can do. lol. Marcus is a relatively poor choice when Eliminate the Leadership is in the pool because his only real defense is his trigger to pass off damage and getting armor +1 from the Steamfitter only goes so far. Of course that may be because I usually bring Trail of the Gods for that extra +2 damage and +3 walk. For schemes and strats I do not use Marcus in, I prefer Dancing Sabre Colette in Ply for Info because it gives an unbelievable amount of AP control, but that's a very niche and personal preferred playstyle. Plus bringing a Showgirl (read: Carlos) with Practiced Production is just fantastic for scheme marker based schemes. For Raspy and Mei... well, just play Mei in TT and even then, she's just too subpar unless you want almost a complete support master... which is what she is fantastic at. Raspy is great at blowing stuff up. I'd think of playing her in Ours. Hmmm... maybe I do need to try her in Ours. I don't play Ramos much so I can't really give you any feedback with him and I don't have many Outcast players in my meta so can't help you there either. Sorry. The reason Sandeep beats out Marcus is because Sandeep allows for more interactions and gives more buffs than Marcus could ever give. Marcus is great for focusing down single miniatures while Sandeep is great for covering the entire crew.

I've been eyeing Sloth for a while and he looks like such a great Tarpit model. Hard to Wound with Armor from the Steamfitter mixed with his Df trigger seems really strong. Can't think of many models that use crows. His 0 action heals 3 by giving a friendly model Slow but we can just remove Slow with the Effigy. Then Sloth can hand out Paralyze to an enemy or do 2 damage and Slow. Bring him along with Tutelage Sandeep and you can do it twice a turn with one at positives. Then use Sandeep's ability to pull enemies close and never let go. Lol. The only bad thing is that his aura seems pretty crappy. Has anyone used him and had any luck? He seems like such a good Tarpit model when you need to hold a point (or an area such as in Ours).

Going with this thought on placement effects, and the fact that Malifaux is measured from top-down view, Kaeris wouldn't have to be on the same level as the enemy model upon placement, right? Just as long as she is 2 inches away from the model in the top-down view. Or does she have to be within the 2 inches in all ranges/planes?

The difference is that the base is still making contact with the terrain, it is just the placement is off enough to displace the model. Thank you for your help but the question has been answered in a very thorough way in another post. 😁 For those curious about the answer, the answer was that since the model is placed and the model is not moved, fall damage cannot occur. Fall damage only occurs during movement and a place is not a movement.

Aye, that is exactly what I mean. Also, if you were to encounter this, would you consider it an unsportsmanlike move or a legit strategy? if legal, I'd almost consider this a good strategy as you're taking advantage of the terrain and such. But it's also something that I could see as bending the rules and is looked down upon even if it is legal.

Question about the Grab and Drop: if you place the model on a piece of terrain that cannot hold the model and so the model would fall farther, does it take the additional falling damage? I bet there's some rule in the placement rules that stops it from working like that, eh? Something that says it has to be placed in a legal spot or some such?

True story. Lol. #beastmasterisbestmaster #imeanMarcus #McMourningisnobeastmaster lol.

In regards to the first part of this quote and a part of your previous quote - it seems that to "be good" with Kaeris means you MUST take those upgrades you mentioned. I'm more concerned about the fact that I try to play her a different way and that way is so sub-par that it is near useless. Her other limited upgrade, Purifying Flame, is worthless and the fact that if you don't take Grab and Drop, she's screwed. I know there are many masters that have an optimal build and playstyle (i.e. Marcus, etc) but it seems to me that a Master who seems to revolve around the burning condition should have better interactions with it. So yes, with the "optimal upgrade build" she probably does have more survivability than a couple of the top tier masters but vary from that and her survivability plummets.

I can only hope that Wyrd has plans for the future to make that new upgrade at least decently viable. Currently, it is very subpar and not worth it because the models that would benefit from it are only a handful and the zero action is just too restrictive. I like your idea! We need more Colette-esque models who "perform death defying stunts" and such. There aren't many models that use Focus as a resource so having a minion using it as such would be something relatively new and exciting. If the model were to use Focus as a resource, it would probably need some sort of way gaining it or retaining it from turn to turn as well.

Thanks!! I'm sure there is a much better name than the Corrupted! Lol. It was just one of the first few that came to mind. I could see this model making it's way into many crews bc of its versatility and semi-staying power. Do you have any model ideas you've thought of and would like to share?

Those are some great points but just an FYI, Ama's obey is a 0 AP action. I just figured she's good for a heavy hitter and although she is missing the Armor +2 and ignoring defenses like Joss, she can hit harder, get armor +1, and heal herself. Plus she has more maneuverability with Flight than Joss. I guess the biggest thing is not dropping that extra scrap marker. But if you bring the Steamfitter, that a decent way to still get scrap markers. I could see the Specialist being used vs Ressers and such or Slow McCabe even. Getting rid of slow on your own models is always nice too.

If you could bring someone who has an obey to make the Specialist take the action out of activation, it could make it decent. The only model I could think of who has an obey is Ama No Zako... which actually might not be bad to run. Just some theory-fauxing here but if the Spiders are lowering an enemy's defense, Ama's Ml 5 isn't that bad of a detriment so she can get that 3/5/7 damage. She has terrifying 13 (Living), can get armor +1 from the Steamfitter, is Hard to Wound and can get healing from her Ml trigger. Not too bad. I'm looking to actually try out Ramos for the first time in the coming months now that I have his new upgrades so maybe I'll give this a try. Now I guess I do need Ramos, his totem and Spiders. lol. Or has someone tried this already and has determined it's a bad idea? lol.

I 100% agree with this. Her only way of healing is by putting burning on herself and taking the upgrade and that still isn't until the end of turn. Armor is easily bypassed now-a-days and most things are still going to hit Df 6 models. Kaeris basically has to be played as someone who runs along the outskirts of battles throwing fire onto models, but then you have to worry about randomizing because of the on her abilities. *sigh* I want her to work well but with the stronger models coming out that basically bypass any way of keeping her safe and her own abilities severely limit her damage output. @doubledragon , the opponent I played against knew to just engage most of my models (and thus have most of his engaged) and throw a heavy hitter at Kaeris. Maybe try that next time vs your opponent and watch them cry? lol.

I wish I could like this harder than just a single Teddy.

I bring a handful of Beasts with Marcus. Usually the Rogue Necro, Malifaux Raptor, Myranda, and a Hoarcat Pride or two. If I bring a model that's not a Beast, I usually make it into one for the whole game with the trigger from the Malifaux Raptor. Marcus interacts with the Beast keyword so well that it makes a lot of sense to either bring more than a few Beasts or to turn them into one and then heal them up with Myranda. Since most Beasts are melee focused, I like to bring Anna along for many, many reasons but mostly because she doesn't randomize into melee. Although between her and Rogue Necro, it's a hard choice sometimes, especially since you can give the Rogue Necro armor now. Btw, definitely bring the Steamfitter.

Thanks and yea, I was in the discussion and I still say that Kaeris is a subpar master in respect to most of the other Arcanist masters. She's fun and I love her theme but I'd rather play Marcus, Ironsides, Colette and Sandeep over her in a competitive scene.

Those are all good points. I just had a reactivating Witchling Thrall with Nimble who ignores armor and McCabe are in Kaeris's face turn two which meant a dead Kaeris turn 3. Also, Kaeris shooting and randomizing into melee and hitting your own models, even if it is Carlos, is terrible. Hell, the Friekorps Specialist I brought to try out did more damage and burning than Kaeris. Kaeris really does need some sort of overhaul... even if it's just to make her tankier or make her abilities better (i.e. No on her actions or make more of her actions so she doesn't have to be so close to melee. If I would've played Marcus or basically any other Master, I probably would've done a lot better. I just wanted to try out Kaeris to again affirm just how bad she is. lol.

I'm sure most people, at one time or another, have thought of a model or ability that they would like to see in Malifaux and I figured starting something here would be a fun way for us to discuss those ideas. Since this is the Arcanists forum, lets try and keep it to Arcanists models but all ideas are welcome. An idea a friend and I had the other day was a model that is able to duplicate itself. For lack of a better name, lets call it "The Corrupted". Perhaps an Arcanists/Neverborn dual faction minion or enforcer model with a relatively high cost (8 stones?) that performs the duplicate action as a zero AP and must discard a card or some sort of marker. The duplicate action would summon a model that takes damage equal to the number of "Corrupted" on the field or have the new "Corrupted" come in with the same amount of damage as the one that duplicated itself. Make it have the Swarm characteristic (because we all know we're waiting on that dual faction Neverborn/Arcanists master that is all about the Swarm characteristic! lol). I would also like to give it another characteristic like Beast or Gamin for fluff reasons as I see it being some sort of "natural being" that has had its essence corrupted by either the Neverborn or Arcanists. I would also give it an ability like "Territorial - only one of this model may be hired and any "Corrupted" model not summoned from a "Corrupted" model is immediately sacrificed." This stops any OP-ness with Sandeep Gamin summons or anyone else that can copy other model's zero AP actions. If it is summoned by discarding a card, I think that it would be cool to let the summoned "Corrupted" have an additional ability based on the suit you discard but it would not pass on to any future duplicated "Corrupted". This allows you to have a bit more choice to decide what can perhaps help you in a certain situation. Some abilities could include Regen +1, all attacks do some sort of additional conditional +1 damage (burning, poison, etc), adding additional walk or the Wicked ability. I personally see this model as a sort of tarpit so it's damage track wouldn't be too stellar but I think it would need a Ml 6. Although with it being able to duplicate itself, it would be a decent, albeit high cost, scheme runner. If it does have the Beast and/or Gamin characteristic... maybe it should have an ability to interact with those keywords? Hmmm.... idk about that one but I feel like it would need some other action or ability. Any thoughts on my concept? Any other concepts that people would like to put forward?

Used this combo in a Symbols game last night and it worked great! Managed to collect all 3 enemy Symbols. Still lost 8-6 though. Kaeris kept being terrible and it was worse because my Guild opponent had condition removal. The Jury is so OP... especially with McCabe upgrades and Debt to the Guild. Shouldve just ran Marcus... Lol.