Meliondor

Hi! Some short questions from last game we could find int he rulebook. 1. If models stand on different height of terrains (1 model is 4 inch above the other), do you measure the range from base to base or just in a streight line ignoring height ? For LoS height is ingored (page 40 in the small rulebook), but we find no clear rule for Range 2. Can I push models over terrain edges, so they take falling damage ? 3. If I am higher than my opponent and have some drag option (like peacekeeper), can I pull the opponent to me on the higher surface ? 4. I I can pull someone on a higher surface and he has no place to stay there, does he fall down ?

- He is a good melee tank and can become even tankier with his 1 point upgrade - He can make other moels even tankier (for example lady Justice or Bishop...this are the perfect companions for him, or Perdita for defense 9) - He can hit hard in melee and he can shoot ok - He can push your models out of melee So if you have a model for only 8 Soulstones, with the fighting abilities of an 8 point model, but also 2 great support abilities, then it is just absolutly great. His stand alone abilities are worth taking him for this points. His Bodyguard abilities are just making him better. Even at 10 soulstones I would still consider taking him. He makes it in nearly all my lists, even if I hate the model.

a 12 point scheme runnter... For the same points you can get a Lone Marshal and a guild guard. So you can place scheme markers on different side and also deal damage, have an activatin more and so on. I am really no friend of the Pale Rider. 12 points is just so expensive...but yeah, he can place scheme markers without loosing dmg. He is strong enough that he can win games nearly alone (shooting every turn while accomplishing schemes), but he can also loose you a game if you flip the balck joker on an early turn and your opponent lands a too lucky hit.

I do not like Hounds. If you play 4 of them, your opponent needs only to kill 3 and the last one is useless. Guild guard is nice, because of defense abilities. But I prefer witchling stalkers and soon Pistoleros. Because they are able to get rid of opponents scheme runners, while also planting their own scheme markers. Austringers and pathfinders will also be great additions. Cheap enough to place markers, but also very useful.

Interesting. The thread was worth it just to start the discussion :-). With wave 3 I will start the discussion by complaining how OP our stuff is, then it will give a lot of discussions about how broken the stuff of other factions is and if guild is still playable. So I will have to take a second look ath the hound-McCabe interaction (that might be worth it...3 point models that place scheme markers are great). Lucius well...he will be great at planting bombs and similar missions. Then you first see schemes and then choose master he will be a must have for me. The cheap options (like Brutal Effegy and watcher) might be ok as scheme-marker placers with some extra ability. You need something you can have just running around for schemes and there are perhaps better options then guild guards. But I am still not sold on Dashel.

Well, as I said: Theoryfaux, nothing more. The masters all offer some new playstyles and are all interesting. But nothing as great and game breaking as collette, just masters, that bring some options on the table and are fully viable (like most masters). Hoffmann will work at 40 points or more, because only then he can make best use of healing, upgrades and take all the models he wants. He would be so great with Lazarus, but well....he hates the creator :-). This is why most constructs are ok with him (except guardian...which is just expensive). Lucius is our scheme marker caster. Lots of minions. First idea is of course an army with many guild guard models and seargent and captain Dashel. But then you will realise, that it is just safer to take only models, that can stand on their own, because the synergie is not that great for the points. Mostly because Dashel is overpriced wihout 2-3 rifleman. Mc Cabe is no beatstick himself. His most useful ability (except from leaving his horse when he dies) is the giving around of upgrades. If he could give this upgrades to enforcers it would be great, but also with wichtlings I see nothing game breaking here. Just an all around solid master, that can work with the right army composition. The new ortegas are both ok. Granny might see some playtime now and the pistoleros are great even outside of the family. Pathfinders are just great, just like the austringers were before. Both great models. But other than that ? The whole guardsmen support theme will be expensive and guardsman will still not perform as good as pathfinders or austrrngers :-). I fear the whole team will not work as good, as a list that simply uses some better beatsticks for the points. Other models, like lawyer, exorcist, Pale Rider, watcher will never see playtime for me. If you have an other opinion share it, I am interested to see what use you see in models i would never use over witchlings, austringers, pistoleros, Franc or trappers (which are all awesome)

So what did we get out of the second wave ? I checked the cards and here is my full theoryfaux opinion about them. Good thing: I will not have to spend too much money soon. The new masters are of course all interesting, just because every master is interesting, but oustide of that I will just need to buy pathfinders... Hoffmann Interesting caster with giving out his upgrades, repairs and sharing attributes around. Will have problems at smaller games, because his synergie chain needs certain models. Nothing game breaking. Ryle Expensive, not much sustain, good damge. Really missing a book for defense to be worth taking with anyone else than Hoffmann. Interesting movement and heal ability. At least 1 point too much. Not useful Mechanical Attendant Only there to give Hoffmann fast and DF 5. For Hoffmann useful. Guardian Overpriced, no damage…only usefull for DF 6. But just too expensive. Lucius Our special master for scheme markers. Elite training in small are, scheme things and an ability, that needs always a suit… An other master, nothing game breaking. On the weaker side IMHO. Dashel Only useful with many rifleman. Otherwise completely overpriced. You need 2-3 rifleman to make him worth his points…but Riflemen do not work with Lucius (he makes them better in melee). Useless Abuela Ortega Ok defense now, interesting gun with too less range. Faster than you think, can give extra action around with 8+card. Nothing great, but ok Guild Hound Weak, cheap, only useful in groups, but then has a limited use if you want to place scheme markers. I think they are useless Guard Seargent Nothing special. Useless in my opinion, because he needs to many other models to work Hunter Squishy for the points, but cool abilities and ok damage. Workhorse for construct armies and so ok Guild Lawyer No damage, interesting defensive ability, but nothing that makes him good Watcher Can negate cover or share LoS. Cheap and can place scheme markers while flying. See no use forhim Exorcist Overpriced for its dmg… Pistolero Cheap, increases defense, special attack ability…absolutely great for its points! Pale Rider Too expensive, to less dmg for this points Warden Cheap workhorse for construct armies. Ok. Witchling Handler Most useful with many witchlings or to spread fire attacks. Could be interesting with Sonnia. But very expensive for this abilities Brutal Effigy See no reason to take it…. Guild Rifleman 1 / 2 / 4 dmg does not impress me. Would take wichtlings or pistoleros instead of them. Not useful Guild pathfinder Good musket and fun with traps. I think they might even be overpowered for this points… They place a trap in front of them and shoot, if an opponent attacks them he has to deal with the trap. McCabe An other caster, that gives out upgrades to minions. Not good in melee or ranged, so mostly an interesting form of support. Just an other master Sidir Better at ranged than at melee. Expensive, but can be fun. Ok Luna Not good herself, but making guild dogs great! Wastrel Ok for 4 points Lazarus Would be so great for us….bot NO, he hates the maker Sue Anti-charge fire spreading, card drawing half-beatstick. Ok for the points

I only have 3 rolls: Beatstick: Model that do immense damage in melee and can take some beating Object runners: things that win the mission and the game for me, while doing not much else Ranged: Things that kill stuff at ranged and stay behind normally Beatsticks: we have a whole thread about that, just to the opponent and then walk on after he vanished. Object runners: Everything that costs 5 points and below normally. And everything that allows to move models around more. To make it short: Guardsman are ok with armor and gun for 4 points, nothing special Wichtlings can do more damage than you should expect for 5 points in melee Pistoleros will be interesting once official Austringers are something special here, because they allow other models to place counters Ranged: This are models that stay behind the melee units and try to take out key models or support the object runners. Austringers for example are great here, because of high range, "shooting" into melee and so on. Marshal is an other model perfectly for this: High mobility and good shooting abilities Most models from guild can fill 2 rolls. Executioner for example is only beatstick, while judge is beatstick, ranged and can also move models around, so he just is everything :-). Peacekeeper is beatstick mainly, but also has some form of a gun. Everything below 7 points is mostly used for special purposes (Austringers for harrassing and moving around, Death Marshal for Pine Box, Witchlings for burning and huge damage and so on) or just to get objectives, The ranged models are often also placing markers or defending them or whatever the mission is, especially in later turns when object runners died already. Beatsticks just stay from turn 2-5 in melee and then perhaps remove some markers of the opponent, but normally they never lay down markers themself. Everything with 7 points or more must go straight into combat for me. No place for support, just shoot / bash opponents models to death

Peacekeeper has arm 2, hard to wound, a drag gun and great damage. All this for only 11 points. He is at least 1 point to cheap in my opinion. I mean he is same point cost as Bishop for us....

The answer is always 42. If someone ask "how much points do you want to play", of course the answer is "42". For every game. In Malifaux this even works!

I am still unsure about the executioner. His minimum damage is just one more than from the judge. WD are the same, judge has hard to wound and hard to kill. He also has stand for judgment (I use it so often to move my master around...) and a good pistol. Executioner just has a expensive healing ability + healing when it kills something and some interactin with enemy scheme markers, that is not bad. What happens if I field the executioner: Opponents read what he can do, see no armor, no hard to wound and start targeting him with anything they have. They do the same with the judge, but thanks to pistol and hard to wound he is still not useless. If I field the executioner it feels like he is really dominating the games I win, because he gets kills, but to be honest...if he perfoms really well I normally would not have needed him, because the game was won anyway and my opponent stomped. If I loose a game it is because he died too early. The judge is great in games I win (just as good or better than executioner) and games I loose. Now you might say: Why not field both ? Well that is of course possible, but I also want 1-2 Austringers, Franc and some cheap object grabber (witchlings or guardsmen normally). Perhaps I should just try Franc + Bishop more often for ultimate defense combo and see how my opponent handles this :-).

I am still unsure about the executioner. His minimum damage is just one more than from the judge. WD are the same, judge has hard to wound and hard to kill. He also has stand for judgment (I use it so often to move my master around...) and a good pistol. Executioner just has a expensive healing ability + healing when it kills something and some interactin with enemy scheme markers, that is not bad. What happens if I field the executioner: Opponents read what he can do, see no armor, no hard to wound and start targeting him with anything they have. They do the same with the judge, but thanks to pistol and hard to wound he is still not useless. If I field the executioner it feels like he is really dominating the games I win, because he gets kills, but to be honest...if he perfoms really well I normally would not have needed him, because the game was won anyway and my opponent stomped. If I loose a game it is because he died too early. The judge is great in games I win (just as good or better than executioner) and games I loose. Now you might say: Why not field both ? Well that is of course possible, but I also want 1-2 Austringers, Franc and some cheap object grabber (witchlings or guardsmen normally). Perhaps I should just try Franc + Bishop more often for ultimate defense combo and see how my opponent handles this :-).

Hm, interesting discussion. But not helpful for me, sorry. Too much personal taste, to less thefaux. A beatsicks needs 3 things: Hard hitting, taking some damage, mobility / reach / form of delivery Guild models: Peacekeeper Offense: Hard hitting, up to 3 attacks with huge damage Defense: Armor 2, hard to wound. Enough said. Mobility: A drag gun... This beast has everything. Best in game. No idea how it came trough playtesting ;-). But expensive. Judge Offense: Good melee and ranged damage Defense: Hard to wound, can get armor, hard to kill Mobility: Stand for judgment Great model, ok pointwise. Best choice for this points. Francisco Offense: Ok hitting, up to 3 attacks. For this points a good beating Defense: Gives other models more defense, but also ok himself. Finesse + healing with upgrade Mobility: ranged weapon is ok A supporter and tank, but also a possible secondary beatstick. Hopkins Offense: good against burning models Defense: can ignore LoS when shooting burning models... Mobility: mainly ranged, sometime no LOS needed I think he is a weaker form of judge with more ranged. Good for Sonnia, not good for anyone else Lone Marshall Offense: Medicore ranged and melee Defense: Hard to wound, bullet proof Mobility: just fast For its points ok, with good mibility. But more utility, fighting, harrasing model than Beatstick Executioner Offense: Good damage Defense: Healing for action, but nothing great otherwise Mobilty: not mobile I do not understand why people like him so much. He is not that good, I prefer Judge anytime. Mercs: Gunslinger Offense: Some good shooting abilities Defense: resistant against shooting Mobility: Ranged, so good range No real Beatstick. without the price for mercs he would be great, otherwise I prefer guild models, he is not that good for 8 points. Nothing Beast Offense: Great: extra attack and so much damage Defense: Can have great defense and incorporal and counterattack Mobility: Nothing too special Interesting. Incorporal is very good most of the time...but there are also models that ignore it and then this model has a huge problem. Kill Joy Offense: Great damage Defense: Healing, much hit points, Mobility: gets summoned in a strange way I do not like, because he has too charge. He can be countered sometimes this way. Bishop Offense: Up to 4 attacks, ignore armor. extra damage and so on possible Defense: Good defense, great with Franc Mobility: 3 actions Good for Mercs, too expensive for guild in my opinion. But great synergie with Franc Taelor Offense: Good damage, Aoe Defnse: Hard to wound, hard to kill Mobility: Nothing special I prefer Bishop here. Both are fine, but he is just more interesting. Other than that she is too expensive for guild Hannah Offense: AoE Defense: Armor Mobility: nothing special No beatstick. Not useful for guild in my opinion. I will say nothing to wave 2 models, yet. Later, when they are finished. So the ranking for now: Best beatstick: Peacekeeper. He just has everything a beatstick needs. Best beatstick for points: Judge. Ranged, melee, hard to wound, good damage, stand in for justice...for 9 points just a great toolbox. Best overall model with beatstick abilities: Franc. Gives important models more defense, is a tank himself, can deal good damage, just great abilities all around.

Hm, interesting discussion. But not helpful for me, sorry. Too much personal taste, to less thefaux. A beatsicks needs 3 things: Hard hitting, taking some damage, mobility / reach / form of delivery Guild models: Peacekeeper Offense: Hard hitting, up to 3 attacks with huge damage Defense: Armor 2, hard to wound. Enough said. Mobility: A drag gun... This beast has everything. Best in game. No idea how it came trough playtesting ;-). But expensive. Judge Offense: Good melee and ranged damage Defense: Hard to wound, can get armor, hard to kill Mobility: Stand for judgment Great model, ok pointwise. Best choice for this points. Francisco Offense: Ok hitting, up to 3 attacks. For this points a good beating Defense: Gives other models more defense, but also ok himself. Finesse + healing with upgrade Mobility: ranged weapon is ok A supporter and tank, but also a possible secondary beatstick. Hopkins Offense: good against burning models Defense: can ignore LoS when shooting burning models... Mobility: mainly ranged, sometime no LOS needed I think he is a weaker form of judge with more ranged. Good for Sonnia, not good for anyone else Lone Marshall Offense: Medicore ranged and melee Defense: Hard to wound, bullet proof Mobility: just fast For its points ok, with good mibility. But more utility, fighting, harrasing model than Beatstick Executioner Offense: Good damage Defense: Healing for action, but nothing great otherwise Mobilty: not mobile I do not understand why people like him so much. He is not that good, I prefer Judge anytime. Mercs: Gunslinger Offense: Some good shooting abilities Defense: resistant against shooting Mobility: Ranged, so good range No real Beatstick. without the price for mercs he would be great, otherwise I prefer guild models, he is not that good for 8 points. Nothing Beast Offense: Great: extra attack and so much damage Defense: Can have great defense and incorporal and counterattack Mobility: Nothing too special Interesting. Incorporal is very good most of the time...but there are also models that ignore it and then this model has a huge problem. Kill Joy Offense: Great damage Defense: Healing, much hit points, Mobility: gets summoned in a strange way I do not like, because he has too charge. He can be countered sometimes this way. Bishop Offense: Up to 4 attacks, ignore armor. extra damage and so on possible Defense: Good defense, great with Franc Mobility: 3 actions Good for Mercs, too expensive for guild in my opinion. But great synergie with Franc Taelor Offense: Good damage, Aoe Defnse: Hard to wound, hard to kill Mobility: Nothing special I prefer Bishop here. Both are fine, but he is just more interesting. Other than that she is too expensive for guild Hannah Offense: AoE Defense: Armor Mobility: nothing special No beatstick. Not useful for guild in my opinion. I will say nothing to wave 2 models, yet. Later, when they are finished. So the ranking for now: Best beatstick: Peacekeeper. He just has everything a beatstick needs. Best beatstick for points: Judge. Ranged, melee, hard to wound, good damage, stand in for justice...for 9 points just a great toolbox. Best overall model with beatstick abilities: Franc. Gives important models more defense, is a tank himself, can deal good damage, just great abilities all around.

I think they are offensivly / defensivly worth around 5 points. Compare them to our stalkers. That + pinebox makes them 6 points, but you will rarely need more than 1 pine box. So 2 is really the maximum I will ever field, normally only 1. For model count I prefer guardsmen, as cheap fighters stalkers. At 7 points you get family models... So we have enough other options.

Hi! What Mercenarys are you using in your current guild army ? I was thinking about Hans for more ranged support (because he is really cool), but Nino can nearly do the same Student of conflict seems also interesting: Sonnia can cast 4 spells with her, Lady J also loves fast and so on. Might be a really good merc for us, even for 5 poitns. Any other mercs you like ?

An other question: - If I kill a model that is not burning, but the attack causes burning: Do I get a Stalker ?

And you cannot buy a new box from here. So people who start new and decide to play guild, will get Lady J or Sonnia first. So it is a bit quiet about the Ortegas. Other than that Francisco Ortega is like an auto-include for me, because of his own tankiness and the +2 defense ability. Lady J, Sonnia, the judge...all like +2 defense. Perdita with defense 9 is just fun, too. Other than that you can decide what you want. The judge and Austringers are always good. Guild gards are 4 point models for schemes. The other family models have a certain tactic (blow everything up or sniping around) and you can decide what you want. But you can also play the full family and it is very effective. Just with Santiago I am unsure what to do. He can shoot ok, melee ok and so on...but in the end he is also "only" 7 points and this points he is worth for sure.

Hi! I am thinking about starting outcasts (Victorias), but what stops me are those Ronins. They cost 6 points each while having not much df, low attack values and just medicore stats. Compared to stats from other 6 point models (for example guild) they just seem to cost 1 point too much in my opinion. Do they pay so much for the anti-charge rule ? This does not prevent that they get shot down, so I come the conclusion that they are overpriced. Do I miss something here that makes them worth the high point costs ?