EnternalVoid

While I believe that maneuverability is powerful I think Board Control is better. Just being fast or having abilities around terrain is not always enough. As Fetid pointed out having the ability to move well and hit hard tend to produce go to models. Effectively those models can control an area around them with their threat. But there are some models that are not as fast but still produce a wide area of control as you want to avoid their 'reach' even if it is not something as strait forward as big meaty fists. that said often board control and maneuverability go hand to hand with some cases.

Thanks, that helps alot getting an idea how big it is. Though another question has sprung up. Where did you pick yours up? I live in America and they seem European based, alot of the gaming websites don't have the stuff or if they do it is only the starting boxes.

I had actually read the review before I found this post here oddly enough. Been trying to research that Bushido model to get some ideas, been considering it for a project. Any chance of getting a picture of the dragon next to another model? I have been noticing that finding pictures of the Bushido models next to other models, their own or other lines, has been rough to get a size gauge. And very amused by the Spirited Away theme idea.

Von Schill has two big assets; his versatility and survivability. I have seen many 10ss models taken down in a single turn because someone was able to drop enough AP into dragging them down or throw their own single big SS cost model at them. 10 wounds are good, but having some armor, magic resistance and stubborn only stretches it. He would be broken if he had a decent defensive trigger. Losing a 10ss model can be brutal to a fight, more so if you needed them for some scheme or plan. The ability to not go down as long as you have some SS and avoid paralyze is huge for a high point model. I have had games where he survived a brutal assault only to run away to protect 2VP by staying alive. I have also had him tank their best attempts and retreat so I could counter attack and make them pay for the SS they had me burn. The other aspect his his versatility, though it is primarily in two areas. Movement due to Nimble and Augmented Jump being one and his range damage being the other. Being able to ignore disengage strike with a 0 action not to mention a free movement is just enviting you to leave combat each time and do your own thing. More so when you feel your gun will do more good for you then your knife *which when I have played him is often, making them charge him all over again and reduce their number of attacks is great*. Add into this that nimble and the jump can help slow groups handle speedy strategies or give your fast movement stuff some extra durability or range output is nice. I can remember two different treasure hunt scenerios when he won the day for me with Nimble and his jump *as the chest just stops flight, not the disengaging part*. He has survived Collodi throwing himself across and a tidal wave of marrionette attacks to win for me. His gun is also really nice. 3 weak damage is a nice golden number in alot of cases. Sure everyone wishes they could have something like 4 for weak, but 3 is when it gets to the point where each attack truly starts to be felt and feared. Add into it Brutal trigger and you make people nervious that you might have gotten lucky with two high tomes in your hand and a deadly 12-16" range assault is coming.

I am pretty sure that Avatars count as masters still off the top of my head *don't have the book on hand* so I doubt that Zoraida can Hex or Obey one.

Yes you can. The ability says it gives you one more AP but that it can only be used to cast or channel so it is a different named ability than Casting Expert or Casting Master.

I completely agree. I mean, at least Wyrd responds, and is fairly active in making rules. Just wish there was an easier way to find them. If I remember right this works, sadly my cards are out of reach at the second. As long as they have not died once and triggered Does Not Die as it gives an effect that prevents sacrifice. So anything that sacs them before it triggers should be able to get rid of them.

I believe not due to the rules of page 41 concerning the gun icon. It says models in melee can't use range attacks. Ice mirror gives you no rule to actually get around the fact that your master is in combat. The last bit on Ice Mirror about not being able to use a range spell through a model engaged reflects that it is still Rasputina casting the spell. I imagine the vulture would have the same restrictions looking at its wording.

Something to consider, if you want to keep a theme with Seamus I would consider female punk zombies if all possible. You could possible convert Showgirls, dead doxies, or belles to fit the theme and weaponry. For the dead doxies or belles it would be just converting the arms to have twin katanas perhaps. For the show girls you would likely have to give them zombie heads and the twin swords but not be as similar to your existing belles.

It does work this way and if it did then there would be slightly less complains about Does Not Die. Page 34 of the rules Manual tells you how Paralyze and Reactivate work, just like Fast and Slow the moment you have both, they cancel out. The rule goes further and says "A model is not affected by both Reactivate and Paralyzed at the same time." So the moment you are Paralyzed it actually cancels out the reactivate, so you have nothing at this point. So if you get killed again in this turn, Does Not Die still triggers giving you reactivate. The rules for reactivate say "This model may activate a second time this turn during the normal activation sequence. A model can only activate a second time through Reactivate once per turn". As your original Reactivate was canceled by Paralyze you never got to activate a second time, thus you never fulfilled the second half of the reactivate rule about only doing so once per turn.

For your second list I would question the use of the two effigies. Sure they are not bad but in this sort of list I think their might be some better use of points. Between the two it is 8 points, for those 8 points you can get a Stitched Together to go with the Doppleganger. A Doppelganger and stitched Together under Zoraida can be nasty as it can mimic Zoraida's Wp and the Stitched Together's Gamble your Life. It can also take the Voodoo Doll's defense and Proper Manners or the Stitched Together's Does Not Die on approach to help it survive the approach. This would leave you 3 points from dropping the two, thus 4 ss left for crew. At this point I myself would consider two options. The first is pick up an Insidious Madness, the other is pick up Insidious Madness and drop the avatar. Either way you get another fast model that can get to objectives if they try to bog down Collodi. With its attack it can also strip the protection from Obey and Hex from an enemy for a turn. With the Doppleganger, Stitched Together, and it you can really deny your opponent options on schemes as each can potentially deny *Doppleganger can copy does not Die and Madness can sack itself for initiative*. Also if the Doppleganger gets away from Zoriada and her Voodoo Doll she can copy some combination from the Madness and Stitched Together and still be decently safe. As for the avatar, it is up to you. I have not messed with it either yet so I would likely take the 2 extra cash or if I take it if I really wanted to test it out.

Oh yes, Stitched Together are all sorts of silly. That said it is also one of the few models Collodi can use and more so one of the few that has some durability and more than a small handful of wounds. Creepy Fog is a great 0 Action ability. 4" aura means shooting can't target him unless they get into it and he can protect models behind him from shooters. Sure they might be able to move and see the target but at the very least you can limit their number of shots by forcing them to move first. His spells are not used alot, Abduction is sometimes to protect an important short model that you need to keep alive till next turn but I have seen deepest fear cast often enough. It is generally when Collodi gives the Stitched together casting expert so they can cast this spell in addition to Gamble your Life. Not advice against I can give some. First try to stay at least just over 6" away, every movement action a Stitched Together takes is one less for his attacks. Second, try to keep him over 4" from Collodi if all possible. With out the +2 Wp from Collodi they are a bit easier to handle. Anything that can move the Stitched would help, or at least force Collodi to use his speed. If you force a Collodi player to use his speed to deal with something he will leave the Stitched Together fairly far behind. Often when they use 3 AP to move to try and catch up is when I spring and try to kill them with some range attack, preferable from outside their 6". That way when they reactivate they have to move at least once to get into range, limiting their threat to a single attempt. Paralyze is also a nice too if you can get it off. If you Paralyze their first activation, then no matter what they will only get one, as reactivate can only go off once. If you kill and paralyze them after their first action, it cancels out their Reactivate but technically they could kill the Stitched together again to regain Reactivate, as long as they had not declared they were activating the Stitched Together for the second time yet. Sadly one of the best piece of advice is to bear with it. If you can time your attack against it you can at least limit its final attacks but there is little else you can do about it.

Save for the fact Hex says "Target Non-Master Model".

Off of our own models? I have only done it a few times but the main ones were the Silirid's one that hurts them if they are not near one or near water *I needed it to live and go complete an objective*, and I had planned on hexing it away on one of the twins before if the other died *Lelu barely survived instead so I did not need to*. As for the desperate Mercs, it is not a bad idea, just Hex is a two AP spell and needs the right cards. So depending on what you are planning with the mercs it might not be necessary. I have also tried to hex off shatter off of a Rasputina group but he went and used like a 12 or 13 to resist, but at the very least I drew it out of his hand before he went off onto his spells.

Well remember that Hex is resist Wp, so immune to Influence stops hex unless you find some way around it like the Insidious Madness's Neverborn Whisper.

On Stitched Togethers you can Hex away their Does Not Die ability or their Gamble your Life. I have taken away their Gamble your Life before against a Collodi player. I have also used an Madness's whisper to 'shut off' someone's Immune to Influence then Hexed that off them. Teaches them for not reading the card very well and shrugging off the damage line of the whisper. Also been a few triggers I have tried to hex away but often people will throw their best cards to protect those.

All right, I have given it some thought and such. Sorry for the slow response but been busy and got some games in myself. But here are my thoughts. Sorry if they are long. First off a grow list might not be the best course. The Black Blood Shaman is a heavy investment at this point level and with Collodi's speed he might not give you much time. I would likely, considering what you have and will be up again, take a Mature, 3 Terror Tots, the Primordial Magic, and have 8 stones for Lilith. For Schemes, I would go with Kidnap first. Target three of his marionettes as he will sacrifice them to protect Collodi and if you do kill Collodi then they are all sacrificed anyway. As long as two die you get 1VP and if you get the three you get the 2VP. So if you can get the kill on Collodi you will get at least 4VP, 2 for Collodi and 2 for Kidnap. Plus another 2VP if Lilith deals the death blow. For the second scheme you have a couple options; -Announced Bodyguard, as if he gets Lilith he has a good chance of winning already, this means a heavy swing if you can keep Lilith as you will deny him and gain two more VP. Also it will make taking Lilith out more important, though this is a double edged sword. With 8 stones you have them for both offense and defense with this list. -Unannounced Grudge on one of his models, a wicked doll or a marionette. By not announcing it he will not know to protect that model from you and you can just deep strike it at some point or something and net the 1VP. If you pick the marionette I would not make it the same as the ones you have for Kidnap. More on how to attack this one marionette later. -Unannounced Stake a Claim. This one again would only net you 1VP but again, he does not know exactly what you are after so you can just sprint a Terror Tot or another model into place at the end of the game and get that VP. -Unannounced Break Through or Hold Out, again only 1VP but as can run into position the last turn. Between these two and Unannounced Stake a Claim you can pick which when you see the map and figure out which would be the easiest. Shared Contained Power gives 2Vp for killing the leader and 2Vp if it was your leader. It is unlikely for Collodi to be the one that gets the killing blow against Lilith, so it is more likely he is going to be aiming for those 2Vp, his schemes to get him victory, and denying you yours. So max Vp of 6. My plan would be to take a bit of a gamble on the win here, as Collodi will really be the deciding factor. Now comes the important part, how to kill Collodi. So first his defensive abilities. The first are the obvisous one, Use Soulstone. Like any master he can up his defense with the use of a soul stone and reduce damage. With 7 Henchmen points Collodi might have a decent number of stones, or if he is like our local player he might only have 2-3. It really depends on what he feels he has to take. Odds are he will have 4 marionette, 2-3 Stitched togethers, and then a number of wicked dolls. The more Stitched Together he takes the less wicked dolls he will have, thus reducing his number, but at the same time increasing possible damage output. His second defensive is the fact that Collodi can pass hits off onto his Marionettes as long as they are close enough. Effectively sacrificing them to save himself from a hit. The best chance I see to kill Collodi will be to get him to draw all his marionette close and get Lilith in there to Whirling Death on them. Targeting the Marionettes first you can try to wipe them out. Even a weak hit from Lilith will kill them. With out his marionette Collodi will only have his stitched together as his real options for attack, as rebuilding the Marionettes is a slow process that prevents him from giving out Fast. Of course he likely aware of this, so thus a lure becomes necessary, and a transportation target. I would start with trying to keep him from closing in too easy the first turn. This way between Lilith’s Master of Malifaux and your totem, you can try and prepare a decent hand for turn 2 or 3. If you get the black joker, keep it just so it does not show up at the worse time when you go for the kill. At which either two things will happen; he will use his speed of Collodi and marionette to get to Lilith, or he will get with in 14”, preferable 12”, of the Mature Nephilim. If he goes for Lilith use your cards/soulstones, to make sure each marionette misses its first attack so you can trigger Disappear. At which point they are Cb 2 vs. Df 8, making each of the rest of their attacks have an uphill struggle after that point. If this happens, hopefully Lilith has not activated so she can go Whirling Death on them, more on this in the next paragraph. Try to save Lilith towards the end of your activations to try and keep him from doing this and maybe getting another round of going after Lilith like this. For how to deal with the Marionettes and Collodi in this case she can use her Whirling Death, targeting the marionettes first to insure they are gone before going after Collodi. Using Soulstones here when necessary while leaving a few for defense. With your last AP you can then take a swing at Collodi as hopefully all the marionette are dead. If all goes really well Collodi is dead but more than likely he will be alive but hopefully you have exhausted his marionettes and all or at least a chunk of his soulstones. This would work so much easier if Allure worked on the marionette and Collodi, as you would just cast it first and then Whirling Death to make destroying his marionettes easier. The other option is to use the mature to try and lure Collodi into going after it with his marionette so you can set up a place where the primordial magic can use Transportation to get Lilith in there and then do her attack. If you took the unannounced grudge on one of the marionette the mature can even target that to net that 1Vp. It would be easier if he went and gave you this by coming after you, but it is an option to use the Mature as a lure. The major concern though will be the stitched together. They can deal some heavy damage and ignore Lilith’s high defense for her softer Wp. They have a better chance of taking Lilith down than Collodi and his marionettes. Here is the break down. If you kill Collodi with Lilith, you get 6Vp, 4 for Contained Power and 2 for Kidnap. Odds are if Lilith is still alive you have won, as he will get none from Contained Power and even if he gets his 2 schemes he is going to be short. If you just kill Collodi with one of your minions, you have 2 Vp from Contained Power and 2 for Kidnap. If Lilith is alive he might have 4Vp from schemes but you might still get the 1 unannounced Vp if you went for it. If he kills Lilith but Lilith killed Collodi first, you have 6-7Vp to 2-6Vp. Note this is how I would consider approaching this, so take it for what you will.

Well Lucidicide has some stuff on his Leveticus thread http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?30206-Lucidicide-s-Lovin-Leveticus-Guide&p=392752&viewfull=1#post392752 That is where the Collodi stuff is brought up but there is some more on page 6 as well I believe.

Congrats on the victory. Sounds like he really made the mistake with Raspy there, had she activated first? Had she activated he should have put the armor spell on her so she would have had some protection. The Armor +2 and damage reduction flip might have saved her, though it sounds like he made the mistake of also letting you hit period *better off cheating it high and soul stoning to hopefully beat your charge attack*. It is to bad you are facing Collodi after the battle box phase, the moment you give him access to the stuff behind the box he gets alot more options. Namely Stitched Togethers. That will not be to much of a grow list as Collodi does not bring any blood for you so only your own stuff will help you here. To be honest, the easiest way to beat Collodi often is to have some blast templates. His Maronettes have 3 wounds, his Wicked Dolls 2, to anything that deals 3 damage on blast will wipe out chunks of them. Even with 2 wound it will weaken the maronettes and destroy the wicked dolls. Tuco who is coming out here any day now I believe would be pretty good at laying into them. Though Misaki can also fulfill this if you make sure to have a ram. He is going to outnumber you, our Collodi player tends to take 11 models at 25ss. 4 Maronettes, 2 stitched togethers, 4 wicked dolls, and Collodi himself. Yours might do things a little different but I suspect he will have no less then 9 models if he is not taking any effigies. Black Blood will not hurt him due to being Neverborn themselves too. Also the Stitched Together on your side will not be as helpful as Collodi gives his dolls +2 WP if they are close enough to him and against other Stitched it will be Strait WP unless he is in range of Collodi. Perhaps the best thing at this point thinking about it is; what models do you have available for Neverborn and Mercs?

My Electrical Creation card seems to read different. For one it does not have an ability called Pass Through, it has Shocking Touch. It says "Models suffer 1 Wd the first time this model comes in base contact with them during its activation." I would say though based on the wording that you are likely correct that if obeyed it will not cause any Wds as it is not during its activation.

If Collodi gives them anything with his Breath of Life spell I think it should be Casting Expert on the Stitched Together myself as their Ca is better then their Cb and Deepest Fear does more damage then their melee attack, plus ignores armor. Of course that is as long as the enemy does not have Immune to Influence.

With two, and now possible three, Rasputina players in our group I can give some insight I have gathered. I have not played Lilith yet but planning to soon, so I have had more experience with other masters against her. First off understand how her abilities work. I doubt she will will take her Avatar as the mission is not to kill Rasputina, instead likely they will go with having full Soul Stones. Raspy loves her Soul Stones. Meaning she will have them to up her casting total, to make up for having to use Ice Mirror or to make it irresistable, or to keep her alive with wound reduction. Now the stuff to remember. The first is the spell December's Curse. Really this is the spell that many think of when they think of her. It does good damage, can generate blasts, and she can cast it while being out of sight thanks to Ice Mirror. She will not be afraid to shoot her own models in the back with this if it means she can get severe damage for the two blast templates over a couple of your models. The 4 wounds they deal will drop Tots and even put heavy hurting on the Mature or Lilith. Worse if she gets this off and triggers her Overpower to cast it again, mind you it is only worth it if the original target is still alive as Overpower must target the same defender. One of the most important things to know about this spell is that it has a gun icon, meaning she can't cast it if she is in combat and she can't cast it through her minions with Ice Mirror if they are engaged. The second spell to really be on the watch for is Ice Pillars, as she will use them to try and block off certain routes for you. They are not hard to break, but they will eat up actions and produce difficult terrain. The last real important thing to look out for is one of her 0 actions, Freeze Over, as it can lock the models touching a piece of Terrain in spot. But it says they can't move or be pushed, it says nothing about being swapped so she can still get someone off with her spell. I don't know how experienced your opponent is, nor how familar he is with Lilith's box and Raspy's box. So here are a few things; -If Raspy tries to hide behind terrain and sling her spells out through her minions, she might not have anyone back there to protect her. Of course she will be looking for the Transposition spell, it is the obvious means to reach her. What might be forgotten is that the Mature Nephilim can use Walk twice for 12" of movement and 2" reach. Meaning you can have a Tot run into a spot where the Mature can reach it from, Transposition them, and then have the Mature go. If you had Lilith with in 6" of the Mature at the start you can Brood Mother with it so it can activate next. You will not be able to Deliver the message that turn but you can still take a swing at her to put some pressure on if you want and maybe pull a soulstone out. But be careful, if Raspy dies you can't delivery your message. If you managed to do this after Raspy has activated then you just have to get to next turn to delivery your message. I would try to keep a high card in your hand here, so if she tries to walk out of combat you can likely peg her and keep her there. This works best if Raspy put herself somewhere her Golem can't get back to the Mature easily *ie can't charge the mature and has to use at least 2 AP or more of movement to reach him*. With out Melee Expert you can rob him of its activation by merely being outside of a charge arc and more then 5" away. -Schemes, this is a actually not bad. I like Bodyguard, as if push comes to shove I can run away for 2 VP. I would shy away from Assassination as she has those 8ss likely, be expecting it, and will not make it easy for you to get the beatdown you wish for. Bodyguard in turn might makes my opponent more aggressive and less defense if they want to deny those points. So often the closer the game the more pressure it puts on them. With her Fast, walk 6", and Master of Malifaux she can cover ground. Her Defense of 8 and 10 wounds also goes a long way. The sad thing is that with her starting box it is only 19ss, and with her cash it means 2 wasted stones. Still 8ss can go a long way, a few for defense can help alot. I would say Hold out for the other one as with just her box that is hard for Raspy. -As for the Ice Gamin, remember VP are everything. Killing them is not important if they are not fulfilling schemes or stategies. Same with the Ice Golem. With Statue, Shatter, only needing a tome to sub zero trigger you, and possibly more armor from Raspy it is often not worth it to try and kill them unless you have to. With only a 4" walk on the gamin and 3" on the golem, it will be hard for them to out pace you, more so as they will try to keep Raspy with in Ice Mirror range of a few, and with her 3" movement she is not covering alot of ground either. If you do have to kill the Gamin there are two ways to approach it. You can send in the Tots, knowning they are going to take a beating and possible die, or you can try to pick them off carefully with Lilith. With Soulstones you can reduce the damage from shatter to limit taking to much damage from them, and if you use a Tot or two to soften them up you might have them low enough for her to take them out with a single hit if you are lucky. The Ice Golem is to be avoided unless you have to, and if so try to make sure Raspy did not give the guy another +2 armor. If you really do have to stop him then you are going to likely need to throw alot of AP at him to take him down due to the armor and wounds. -Don't forget your illusionary forest spell. It says nothing about having to be 1" away from a model or terrain like some other spells, meaning you can use it to block off a route with some difficult terrain and lack of sight. It also means you can put it on something like the Ice Golem or Raspy to hamper their movement hard, just make sure that Lilith then uses her movement to get out of Ice Mirror range. Honestly I would not try to stand toe to toe with him and fist fight him. All he needs to be is lucky to have even some tomes in hand to protect his golem and gamin, be willing to throw the blessing spell on Raspy if he feels threatened *+2 armor will make her harder to kill*, be willing to spend soulstones to make things hard for you to resist or protect Raspy, and if so I could honestly see him able to win that fight. It is better for you to make plans to set up getting to Raspy, delivering your message and completing your schemes.

Actually about fast, I am pretty they would not get it for their reactivate if they got it for their first activation. Fast is "This Model receives 1 additional general AP during its current or next activation, whichever comes first". Puppet show does not give them the "(+1) Fast" Ability but just says they recieve "Fast". So that should only last for their next activation as per the rules for fast. With out the actual (+1) Fast ability on their card they should not have it that second activation.

Collodi and his maronette can get fast, or well he can make his maronettes fast. The basic of the Collodi speed deal is that he activates first, uses 2 AP to make a pulse which gives his dolls with in 4" fast. He then casts something with his Casting Expert if he would like. He then uses an ability then to activates his maronette after him. At which point the first maronette then activates, moves forward, strings Collodi along, and is done. Thing is the maronette can't be farther than 8" from Collodi, and they have a 0 action that pulls them btb with him. At this point the second maronette activates and ends up stringing Collodi along. Depending on the range to the Evidence counter, he might be right on top of it or close, at which point the next one 0 actions to Collodi and interacts with the objective. If the third one interacts with the objective, then thanks to fast it might still get to move and between it and the fourth maronette might be able to pull Collodi into some cover or towards their next objective. It really depends on how much covers and corners the maronettes have to go around but he can pretty easily get the middle counter in shared destroy the evidence and move into position to go after others next turn.