schristofersen

hmm... i'm dubious of your interpretation and would like to clarify it. Rules state "when the duel is completed" which I do not interpret as including the duel for the resulting WP-> combat total flip. As to picking order... nope. Rule is explicit that order in is order from bottom to top i.e. first card in first to go onto the pile, last card played last on top.

possible... but I don't think I am playing it wrong. I am attacking with the high :masks to get the trigger with Hamelin for Haunting melody and then it goes onto the top of the pile as the attack is resolved and the defender model must then win a Wp->combat total... or have I got the timing on that wrong? If I do so be it... but that doesn't take away from using the high :masks to grow and then picking it up when next they cheat. EDIT: I did have this wrong... the attack card would not be on top of the stack as the damage is resolved and thus the damage card should be on the top of the stack... ah well can't learn without making mistakes. Accurate. I have not made more than 2 tots grow into mature and you have acurately pointed out that theoryfaux has gotten out of hand with that example of nothing but tots and a rat... but the ability to have two tots grow into mature fairly easily is not something to sneeze at and is still a valid point about the Hamelin crew in my mind. The ability to grab the high :masks is both a deterant to your opponent cheating in their own cards and an ability to repeat grow actions multiple times if they do. You most certainly know! likely more than most. However the OP may not, and it is a way in which Hamelin is "that Hamy"

I have had nothing but positive CS interaction with Wyrd and i've had some really sketchy requests, such as changing my order on the clearing out the warehouse sale. My responses have all been timely and looking back all appear to actually have been from Nathan (really seriously think about how crazy that is if it is in fact an email crafted up by Nathan in response to CS) Wyrd is a tiny company responding to what I would guess is explosive growth and your experience is by far the minority of CS interaction. That in and of itself is commendable. I would continue to attempt to resolve the issue you are having with polite email interaction. You are likely to find it is resolved in time.

Yep. I have not had trouble with it, but then again my card luck is somewhat notorious and my signature continues to be true. Being able to pick up the top card of the deck when your opponant cheats is just so amazingly huge. Playing your high mask means your opponant is unlikley to want to cheat... but not cheating means they often fail to get off what they were intending to do, or fail their WP duel vs haunting melody and become insignificant. I do think that the real power of the Hamelin list is in the basic rats, nix, stolen crew. The tots are just a silly parody of the power of the list. Being able to out activiate your opponant and then leap out with everything you have got is pretty amazing... but not necessary as the crew has good synergy and resiliancy. also of note is that, due to the blight counters, the 2SS rats rarely do less than 2 points of damage to a model. This can (and frequently does due to multiple reactivations with rat catchers) mean the demise of multiple models in range of the hoard of rats in the course of a single turn. Hamelin's ability to make models insignificant and only able to target Hamelin when they are within 12" (which they cannot do if they are insignificant...) allows control of pieces that the rats might not be able to handle. I've seen lots of comments that might be interpreted as saying that the crew is not well designed but I really feel like the opposite is true, the pieces just all work together too well for other crews to be seen as on the same level. Also, I don't mind playing against any crew (post dreamer/LCB cuddles). I enjoy a challenge and think that play ability is way more important than crew selection (and is becoming more so as Wyrd makes adjustments). I DO think that there are ways to play crews that can be incredibly frustrating to another player and especially to a new player. Don't kill your game group with negative play experiences if at all possible. I have switched crews several times already in an attempt to keep things fresh. While some fools such as myself buy every model that comes out, there will certainly be people that don't have anything but a box set and a clamshell or two. A win or two vs you playing a crew you are still trying to figure out or with models you have not figured out a use for yet will not only encourage a person just getting into the game but force you to come up with some novel ways to utilize models and push your play level up.

+1 on the awesome hobby lobby you say... hmmmm

Thats hot

i'd say "darn it you're right." but the blessings of desolation from a SPA or two would still have this trigger on killing the stolen for a net gain in SS when killing the resulting rat right? EDIT: no.. no it isn't right as has correctly been pointed out the V3 card also says enemy defender. So no point in stolen for that use for Leveticus.

Incorrect. However what does make this not work is the fact that you have to pick your trigger. You can get a soulstone, or a SPA, from one of the triggers as you can not get both. Gaining a soulstone when killing something with the rock drill is a trigger unless you use the extract soul spell. If you do use the extract soul spell to kill Leveticus at 2 Wd and are successful due to getting the extra crow from cheating it in (blessings of desolation gives you a crow for your CB not your Ca) you are not utilizing a melee strike and cannot utilize the blessings of desolation to create a SPA. I try really hard to have Leveticus die from his taking a wound in the end step as otherwise you open yourself up to the waifs being targeted and not being able to come back. Taking out a waif or Leveticus for a SPA seems like a good plan (and sometimes is a great plan) but not one I would do all the time as you really want to be killing your opponants models for SPA more than your own. I toyed with the idea of taking A&D and a bunch of stolen as it has that multiplying your SS effect as you attack the three stolen and make three SPA and then attack the rats with the SPA created from the stolen after using Leveticus to give them blessings of desolation... but then you have spend your turn doing nothing but creating SPA while your opponant has possitioned themselves and been getting strategy/schemes done. I think it has possibilities... but not something I would do all the time, or even the majority of the time. I'm having a really hard time justifying the SS miner in a Leveticus list post bury changes. He just doesn't seem worth it to me except to go take out austringers or the like. Please convince me otherwise, I would love to use him more. Right now I am finding A&D to be a ridiculous beast... to the point that I am likely to avoid taking him for a while as my opponants feel like he is too ridiculous.

wut... why has it never occured to me that you can channel the 1 action with a totem? We are sure that is legal?

no no... I should have pointed out that in the course of a game that is going to happen. As has been pointed out in this thread this particular list isn't as likely to be as viable as including some other models, but the point is that the terror tots are an example of that particular mechanic not just being a problem due to rats reactivating. You can grow tots to mature more easily than it seems despite there only being 6 cards in the deck that allow it. You can frequently grab that card and use it repeatedly is my point.

lets not forget that Hamelin is going to snatch that 9+ :masks off the top of the discard pile every chance he gets when you cheat against him due to "the void".

That is more my understanding. Which is pretty cool. If I understand it correctly this means that you can hire at least one of the new effigies into the crew... perhaps more than one now that i'm thinking about it. You just can't attach them to anyone.

no problem, i'll give my two cents. general consensus here is that you would have to flip and not hit. well... not too much experience with him but uh... his unload ordinance trigger looks mighty sexy to me. YMMV. I like having some if you are playing with ashes and dust as it gives it something to contort to. Combining them into a Desolation engine is a great threat but without A&D to prevent it loosing wounds every time it does something. If you can get it into melee when you combine it then it can heal itself pretty nicely. SPAs are created by your crew pretty readily and are frequently a better threat of a DE than actually having the DE on the table. The DE is one model where as if they have to deal with four, they are using a TON of resources to deal with them, and keeps them constantly on the defensive. Sure. Use whatever works. I will say that the dead rider has a TON of use in the crew even if you just use him to move Leveticus around. The hooded rider is really amazing as well as you can start him out with the ability that keeps him from being targeted by ranged attacks and switch off when you get into melee to allow Leveticus to give him blessings of desolation to start creating SPAs in their face. I find A&D better than the hooded rider for a SPA machine but I have not played with the avatar yet and may find things different when I do. Pale rider should be out in May. any time.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/a4bb/

like say... the duet? so it would be worth 14?

placed it is! so that answers the question. Also A&D being worth 13 SS every time you kill it makes sense now. Thank you I still think it is worth the risk of taking it in a game with a slaughter strategy. It is just a monster. YMMV.

What are folks using for lighting and/or magnifying minis while you paint them? I'm inclinded to just get a clamp on your desk combination magnifier/light that will allow me to do the detail that i'm suddenly inspired to do with painting malifaux that I never was with um... other games. I do see there is the nifty looking magnifier clamp gizmo on think geek that holds a mini or two and has a magnifier though and was thinking that along with a full spectrum light (clamp on the table or freestanding) would work as well. Thought I would see what other people find works and if there are significant differences between types/brands first.

With the errata update to the bury mechanic and the dreamer/daydreams/LCB the wiki has some serious updating needs. The "dreamer hop" is no longer as possible due to daydreams not being able to use frightening dream to unbury LCB in the backfield and calm dreams to turn him back into the dreamer. You'll want to read the post about the changes in the rules section for sure and keep it in mind when looking at the wiki. I would imagine the wiki will be updates as soon as people can (and has some changes already) but there are clearly sections that are being reworked.

I don't agree on the A&D being worth 13 SS when it comes back as that is specifically laid out in slaughter as being worth no SS. I would be surprised if the duet was really ruled as being worth 0 in slaughter... that would make it so crazy good in slaughter for anyone that can take it, but I see your logic there. Wouldn't it be worth at least 7 as per the slaughter rules? I would think either 7 or 14 RAW. ---------- Post added at 10:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 AM ---------- yep, in a nutshell. Which is why I ask as it seems... odd. Still... it might give some balance to taking A&D when there is a slaughter strategy as it can be worth 39 SS worth of kills for killing 3 models. I hear thats good in slaughter.

Seems like an obvious yes but... When ashes and dust is killed in slaughter it is worth 13 SS worth of kill the first time it is killed toward slaughter. When it breaks into the ashen core and the dust storm those models are replacing the origional model and thus are worth 13 SS apiece as well if the slaughter section is to be taken as worded... or am I missing something? so my question is: If Ashes and dust is killed for 13 SS worth of kills in slaughter do the resulting ashen core and dust storm also grant 13 SS worth of kills if they are killed? I think there are two ways to take this: 1. yup RAW is RAI on this model. Replaced models count as SS same as origional model. 2. No you got your 13 SS worth by killing the ashes and dust. By killing off one or the other you just make sure you don't have to kill the ashes and dust again.

ah! awesome. Still need to be sure to kill the A&D before the end step if you are using the nurse to avoid the whole sacrifice, but really... totally amazing. I need to put a nurse on a base for tomorrow and play nico with A&D, a nurse, and... I dunno... some SPAs I guess. Edit: hmm... this list may well qualify as a negative play experience for your opponant. You've been warned.

does it work like that? so effects trasfer like... if you use burn out on A&D you get the core and dust storm at 1 Wd at the end of the turn... YIKES also you'd mentioned being able to use a nurse with A&D would be awesome in a different thread... but uh.. not if the sacrifice effect transfers

eh... I thought it was you could hire them but you couldn't attach them.

you know.. okay, so the answer is that voracious rats is meant to keep people creating anything from rats but rats and unless it is a "sacrifice" rat type situation you get a rat and no other thing? if it is that simple I wish we could have started with that and finished with that.

Sounds like a viable interpretation. I am curious to see which way a rules martial will rule on this. I suspect it is currently a topic of hot debate... or already hammered out but not something they are ready to roll out until the Hamelin evaluation is well and truly ready to come out at once. It does seem odd that one might be able to get a wicked doll with a (0) action while this spell might not... that... would be an interesting ruling. ---------- Post added at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ---------- As I have discovered from experience that line of thinking (that it has to be designed for something and therefor is unlikely to change so as to eliminate that origional reason) will get you in trouble. If voracious rats is enough of a problem rules wise, no matter what it's origional purpose, it should change. Especially if it makes the Hamelin crew more in balance with the other crews. Don't get me wrong, I think it likely voracious rats intent was to prevent ANY times any other model would hit the board unless sacrificing the rat, but this rules question may reveal a problem mechanically that would serve the game better with an adjustment to it rather than ruling that it overrides (and confuses) the rest of the game.