Necromorph

I feel like this discussion has happened already. He's blowing up his freaking tanks. Its a giant explosion and fireball. Anything near him gets hit. Being in melee with him will not help you at all. The point of the wording is to say that all models in range are equally effected, the type of attack is moot. Everyone in the pulse takes an equal share.

Agreed. I usually try to post something...but as with most of us, I tend to forget from time to time. I know how you feel with responses, or lack thereof. The first story I put up here a long while back (admittedly not my best or most thought out story) got like 120+ views and no responses. Sometimes we just take that to mean, "Well that was the worst piece of garbage...I'm not even going to dignify that with a response." Though this is usually not the intention of the reader, but still, feedback is always nice. The impact, though, is that I haven't done anything more with that character.

Honestly, I've never seen ryle do much except die when in a crew without hoffman. Lazarus is the same ss cost and looks much more survivable and versatile. The thing to remember is levi has little synergy with anything that isn't Ashes and Dust or his Seampunk Abominations. The more I play levi, the more I've gravitated back toward running lists with steampunk abominations, he can crank out an obscene amount of the buggers and last game I ended up with 2 desolation engines, 3 SPA's and Ashes and Dust out at the same time. That being said, in certain strategies, like slaughter, I feel like the SPA's are too easy to kill and will just end up giving your opponents lots of 3ss kills. So, In summary, here are what I would boil my best choices for levi down to. -Lazarus -Alyce -Ashes and Dust -Steampunk Abominations -Guardian -Watcher (best objective cappers he can take IMO) -Soulstone Miner -The 4 Rider models (if you choose to Manifest his Avatar) -Canine Remains (for the extra Waif or cheap activations if you choose) -Jack Daw -Steampunk Arachnid Swarm

Ive used mcms avatar a couple times...he does indeed smash some face pretty well. I like it.

It's a tough call. All the factions got at least 2 good models that will see lots of play time. Outcasts and guild I think are pretty close (especially with sue being the perfect merc for guild). However, I don't think anything is gamechanging enough to knock neverborn off of.the top spot, though guild are catching up quick. It helps.that neverborn didn't get any Big models like the twins or stitched from book2, but...I don't think much from book 3 is going to match that kind of awesome.

I never really noticed this thread before...huh. Nice idea though, I like it. He seems a bit like Rafkin to me, tailored for Hamelin instead of Nico. Don' t know why... could be the whole evil doctor thing. I still think it would be a sweet idea. I mean, is it just me, or does it feel like we've gotten to this point of "Hey, so Hamelin got what he's going to get. New models? Well, the cool thing is you get to use every other factions' ht1 and Insig models, awesome right?!" I like Hamelin's fluff a lot, and I would love to see him get some new models for his crew in future books. Though it's unlikely to happen in book 4 if it's going to primarily expand on special forces.

On the subject of peacekeepers. I think we're seeing them more because the overall situation in malifaux is getting more tense. The Tyrant entities are waking up, different factions are vying for power, the Guilds' enemies are getting more serious with their attacks, etc. All of this is leading to some massive struggle in the near future. Thus...More Peacekeepers, haha.

Yes, he can theoretically have more than 4ss, but the point remains, his starting pool cannot be over 4ss. As for the ranged/melee situation, don't forget that lazarus is no slouch in melee, especially with that trigger to lay auto-dg3 blasts off of melee.

Totally agree Zaq, he is, from a very broad point of view, like his master counterpart. The avatar is great at some.things and horrible at others. I could see taking the 2ss for the manifest and then end.up not using the avatar in quite a few situations. Hamelin is not.unique in this aspect either.

I had to go with Collodi. IMO He's just flat out the best henchman. I have Von Schill and won't play Mercs without him, and while he is great as a merc, I just don't think he's quite at that same level of power as Collodi. I also love Collodi's fluff. I just don't play him because his sculpt looks like absolute garbage...to the point where I don't even want to look at him. Ophelia/Kaeris are probably tied. Ophelia for fluff/fun, Kaeris for pure coolness / gameplay. Though I like him, Lucius is 4th. He's cool, total bastard in the fluff, but lacks a bit of...something...gameplay wise. Molly, though I'm a diehard Zombie fan outside of Malifaux (the only real reason I play ressers lol) is last on my list. I agree with Fetid that she seems a little underwhelming. Further playtesting is required I guess.

Well...I have some points, some of which may fall on both sides of the argument. 1- As with some other avatars, if you're playing the master right, you should have pretty much wrapped up the game before he manifests. Not always, and he is useful, but I have run into this with him before. 2- Though rats are not his only damage dealers (good lord I love desperate mercs haha), his avatar does seem to have shifted his focus back toward them...slightly, so I've been playing the ol' swarm+catcher theme lately, but remember he can give blight counters to other friendly models and then they can spread them...awesome. However they wont spread as fast as with rats. 3- I hit Snow Storm for 30wd with a bleeding disease...nuff said. 4- Basically, the advantage I see of using the rats is that you can spread massive amounts of BC if you get the swarm into the heart of the enemy crew. Even if you can't get more than a couple per model, spam Dance and make the crew kill each other. If you manage to spread 5+ BC to the majority of the enemy crew, Tyrant's Judgment. 5- He becomes more of a glass cannon. You have 1-2 turns to kill him before your crew dies...and he'll probably have hurt your crew pretty bad before he manifests as well. 6- As has been said, he is different, not better or worse necessarily. He gets better at doing what he was already good at, killing things. He loses some survivability and trades certain mechanics for others. However I will say that he does generally get worse at things he was already worse at. Slaughter, some bad matchups, etc.

If they made a Malifaux game it would likely have to be an MMORPG...would be an awesome idea, but those kinds of games take insane amounts of time and resources to create. Hell, look at how long it's taking them to make WH40k: DM, haha.

No. Just the art for the characters on the cards to match the models. You also get the resser set of cards for each model's proxy as a resser model. I.e. LJ is a Dead Doxy, Judge is a Punk Zombie, etc etc.

Right. I wonder though, if you companion them would the unused Vik (which would now be the Avatar) still get to activate right away?

If that is the case, then you would replace the vik that didn't take the all action and you would still have full ap, because the one that hasnt done anything is replaced....so you would have full ap with the AoS. Every part of their manifest says "A Viktoria". So a vik can take the manifest action and then a viktoria is replaced and continues as normal per replaced rules....I.e. the one that takes the action does not have to be the one replaced, and the replaced rules only effect the specific vik that was actually replaced.

We were discussing this last week with spider swarms, the swarm gets AP = to the average ap remaining between all models being sacced/replaced. So...damn, that's a tough one, huh? What would she have left...melee master and 1 general ap as her avatar?

To add to Adran's list for some other masters: Kirai- Can warp out of the bomb onto a friendly spirit and pull all of her seishin with her. Killing the bomb is a different story, but DB and Weigh sins is not a bad option, and she does have some (limited) other ranged options. Hamelin- Irresistable Lure, that's pretty much all you'll need, haha.

I agree Q, but the dreamer forces the opponent to make many more choices than what crew you bring, and as we all know, there are very very few all comers lists out there that will be able to handle anything....there are simply too many variables, and I think the issue is that the dreamer brings many more unique variables to the game in addition to those normally encountered. Not that this is insurmountable by any means, but as I said before, it gives the dreamer player a tactical advantage by passively "putting more on the opponents plate" so to speak.

Well, I'm not trying to take sides in the Karn/Fetid argument, but from that list of models, sure, many of them will be able to help you achieve schemes and objectives. If there were models that didn't help you achieve schemes, strats, w/e, then there would be no point for them to exist in the game. What I would read from that list is that, while those models may be pretty good at helping you cap your objectives, few of them will be particularly useful against the Dreamer (or the alp bomb) in terms of living through the alpha strike / tons of unnavoidable damage an alp bomb can produce to then still have enough left to go and complete your objectives. Unlike some crews/masters, you can't simply ignore the dreamer and go for objectives, he's near impossible to avoid, and with the possible exception of other uber fast crews like Kirai and Collodi, you have to deal with him when the Dreamer wants you to. To put it bluntly, you sit there with your thumb up your a$$ waiting for the paintrain to come into the station. If you force the issue and try for objectives, he will be fast enough to stop you. A lot of what we argue on these forums gets compounded by either the "just take x" argument, which we can agree is flawed, or the general assumption that a strategy or tactic will work...on paper...in a vacuum, but we often completely forget that the opponent still has control over his own actions, and can actively try to stop you. Just because a tactic might work doesn't mean that it's proof against retribution by the opponent, we can't take such a 1 sided view to it...it's not just about what you do, but what your opponent is going to do when they see what you're doing. The Dreamer makes you (the opponent) play on his terms, and his control over the flow of the game (and how the opponent is forced to play) in general is a little excessive at times.

I don't think every crew needs a 1st turn alpha strike...it would feel a little too much like Warmahordes then. However, thought true balance is impossible in malifaux, I think that working toward eliminating glaring imbalances is not out of the question. All of the masters should not be equal, but that doesn't mean that some need to be do far above the norm.

This is true, but he can be taken with ramos/Kaeris...bit not if you want gunsmiths.

This is why I think its not totally off topic to debate the dreamer himself in this discussion. I could take alps with hamelin....but that would be absolutely ineffective, its the dreamers ability to drop them. Copellius is an awesome model, with any NB crew, but when he can be dropped on you head it makes him much more deadly, etc, etc...just random examples. There are counters to all of these things, though the dreamer is very powerful he is entirely bearable, but the only reason the alp argument is such an issue is their synergy with the dreamer. Not all crews or even factions have that kind of crew destroying synergy, and they shouldn't, but really...should anyone? Outcasts have a wide range of models to deal with the alp bomb, which is awesome, but not all factions have as many options, what are they supposed to do if they don't bring them, if they play models to complement their strat, but not apecifically to counter an alp bomb? They die. You can't simply say play for the strat, because they might not even have a chance to go for it if they get bombed turn 1-2. There is no easy solution, and I don't think banning or swinging the need bat is the answer but it is a complex issue and it forces opponents to make choices (these choices are made at the start of the game when all you know is that you're up against Nb) that give the dreamer player a tactical advantage. It puts the opponent on the back foot before the game starts. Again, complex issue with no easy solution.

Yes, now that my rant is over, back on topic, haha. While we've discussed quite a bit how to beat the alps, I've noticed a general issue that I think they need to watch a bit. Anything that causes unavoidable damage needs to be very carefully evaluated. I think alps take it to another degree and that is why we have such an issue, but there are others. Electrical creations (yes there's a reason they're unique, haha), sonnia's avatar pushing flame pillars into units, and somer's pull my finger...though I'd never argue that gremlins are OP, thus I won't ever complain that PmF is broken (this all off the top of my head). As I mentioned in the rant, things that are designed to demoralize opponents and create helpless situations are never fun to play against. In anything though, we have at least come up with some decent ways to deal with the Alp bomb, which is a good start.

@ Karn @ Fetid I have noticed this issue of "Fun" vs. "Balance" and we've discussed it in other forms in different threads, but really it's a tough situation. If you have any game, be it a ttg, ccg, video game, sport, contest, w/e...then you're going to have people be competitive about it, it's just going to happen eventually. You can't tell people "Just have fun, though!", that doesn't work, and you can't tell people how they should feel about something. (Hypothetical situation incoming*) If the game were to remain the way it is, and wyrd came out and said that they weren't going to change anything balance wise in the game, then the competitive players would have 2 choices...Jump on the bandwagon and play the most OP masters, or Quit the Game. Not everyone has the same personality, playstyle or attitude toward gaming on any level, and telling people that take it seriously to "chill out" because it's a "fun game" isn't going to work. As for fun, many of the top masters (Dreamer, Pandora, and Hamelin in my opinion, to name a few) are just downright demoralizing to play against when used by a skilled player. They all have mechanics that just straight up make opponents feel helpless and want to throw their hands up. They can all be beaten, but the lists capable of doing that are still going to have some close, tense games...there is no way to truly "turn the tables" on such masters (unless ofc you're using another top 5 master). Losing like that and feeling that helpless in a game is never fun, and even if you don't care one way or the other, it's still going to leave a sour taste..."Well that was lame, wtf am I supposed to do about that?" kind of a situation. Hell, people at my LGC hate Hamelin so much that I can't even get people to play me when I use him. It's gotten to the point where I have to bribe my friends with beer and taco bell to even consider playing against my Hamelin crew, and that's not fun for either me or my friends. No, true balance will never be achieved, and in a game that's designed around faction balance, it's ok to have a couple OP masters so long as they're evenly distributed, but there doesn't need to be masters that are so over the top and unbalanced that they scare people away from them or the game itself.

See, I don't necessarily agree. Sonnia has a solid avatar, but she is one of the few. I reason that you will only see ~5-6 of the avatars ever used in the competitive setting with any degree of regularity. I agree that the avatars are an attempt to balance the game, but it really only helped a few of them.