Odin1981

I have yet to play her yet but I see claim jump as one of the ones she should be good/great for. Granted I am unsure if she or misaki would be best for it (given that your using her as 10t but both in theory should like to play it). I think depending on what you have in your hand depends on when you go in with her so it could be turn 2 or 3. I would just guess that the most reliable option would be on 3, but if you draw what you need on 2 and can use her so be it. I could also see her as a slaughter role if you know opponent doesn't have a lot of armor ignore. Her + golem at armor 2 can be a bunch of trouble for you opponents if they are light on armor removal. Once again though I believe misaki and her will be fighting a bit with this scheme as well because they both seem to be good at the same ones. I could see her sturdy enough to pick up treasure hunt with pose up and take it to have another model hand off to a model who runs away with it. Those are the three that off the top of my head spring out to me the most. To me the cards I would need would be 1 7+ tome (for terminus or 3rd walking target trigger), one 10+ crow ( the pose trigger on terminus kick), and around 2 8+ of masks (for a whirlwind happy showing potentially using 1-2 ss to boost hits depending on how high # of masks are for you and also having the scalding card trigger if playing against armor or golem is positioned to come in and clean up anything alive left from mei's pop and drop) to be a perfect hand to me for mei to use. Granted its just my opinion and quite a few people will have their own idea on what is preferable to use for them. I think the important thing with mei just like sword viks is you don't have to kill everybody but when you push her in you do at least need to kill the potential threats to her like stuff with combat attack skill 6+ or better. So she can not have to burn ss's on defense flips/damage prevention. How did you like the double torakage with her? would you still double it up with them or would you run 1 plus a brother? Or our you just running mei as 10t or do you have arcanists as well? Thanks for being forthcoming with your play experiances those far it helps to see how theorycrafting would be successful or not and it gives a outside impression of what she can do (can't wait till 21st when store order comes in she + metal gamin our my personal can't wait to gets).

I think ronin are better than rail workers. I like their damage stats compared to workers. I also like how they can poor mans perdita/lilith for tanking situations (only the third model that can naturally hit defense 8 plus they have hard to kill just no use ss's like the other two). I also like how they have a scout type rule for objectives and such being unaffected by terrain. They are really useful in my humb le opinion. Ukrocky I think the reason people are supporting the lsa's with mei is that given that they are a large base they give you the extra 2" for when your railwalker spell. If you just have to large base models lined up for a railwalker it gives you 2" of extra range due to large base instead of the 1" of a 30mm base.

Didn't know this either also. Granted I have maybe played nino in 10 games out of probably well over 100 guild games since the book 1 days. If I recall correctly there was a vietnam vet marine sniper that was left handed as well and maybe he has a feather in his hat not sure if so but that might be a referance to that guy then. Just a guess though not sure.

I could see using it defensively after you have engaged models with him. Then he is already in melee and doesn't need to see out of it. But the benefit of doing so is outside of shapes in the steam figures none can charge into the combat. Granted it is not infallible in that models can still just walk in then swing but outside of a few models with mounted combat or + inbuilt into damage flips they aren't getting to swing on it with a + or straight damage flip then so armor 2 becomes a great defensive staying alive tool.

I could see the torakage as a good independant "railwalker" in that you can smoke bomb then switch with mei and she is set up to not be seen by ranged models but she can see threw the smoke so she can spell/charge walk towards a enemy model. The ten thunder brother is basically a mannequin for 10T faction. I believe the spell for burning counters is good only if you use multiple things to put up steam vent so you can get more than just one aura in range for handing out counters. Depending on board position and which turn it is you could potentially inflict burning counters on the entire enemy crew minus support back of the bus type models. In theory if you linked the emberling to the rail golem and he was still alive you could push the golem in get a vent up from emberling first. Then use the 10+ needed to cast spell on golem to ramp him up to quite a few counters so you could reactivate after you finished pushing him in on models and then use him on his second activation to swat those models down around him or still use cooldown with potentially 4+ counters on him if you could get him in on enough of a crew. And then just tank style him out while you send models at vp's and stuff.

To me they seem like witchling stalkers. In that if you can take them you almost always should include at least 1 in a list. Question for you Bill. Did you use the melee spell against the rail golem? You know the one that ignores armor and gives out easy to wound 1?

For a bit in time. But I believe eventually that will be changed. Yeah, yeah I get it is fantasy and all being a game but certain things like the lava just make such a blatant disregard for any common sense and logic I am under the impression that it will be changed at some point in time in the future.

I would drop a ss from your cache and roll out a torakage+willie. But thats just me. I think mei is similiar to viks in that you want to handsculpt first 2 turns a bit so you don't have to burn ss's on attempts at triggers. I believe with willie (i think he gives burning counters on ranged book isn't handy so guessing) you can hand out burning via range then adjust your rail line for port in and terminus in to pick up pose (via the kick) then blast away with +damage flips on models that willie burning countered.

I've run him with viks before and he is good. He essentially shortens the board by a models walk+ charge due to obey plus his other spell (think it is called piper's lure?). Due to it killing a model that touches the board edge (as well as drawing you 2 cards). He can be a bit tricky to fit in a list due to his cost but he is really good at making a 36x36 board more or less a 24x24 board.

+2 damage doesn't change its magical properties. Just means damage is buffed +2 .

If he was 6 or 7 points he would be a neverborne model so no that won't happen. 8 he would be to cheap, At 9 he is still fine if you are willing to take him for what he does. I really think people are messing with their own heads if they ever think he would be less than 8 points if their is a mk2 in malifaux. Granted for his point cost I agree with people in that he would never be hired out of faction, but for outcasts he is a solid model you just need to use him the way he is intended and not try to think he will be a heavy hitter. I think the only thing that hurts him currently is for 1 point less you can take von schill and he can due everything he does but also actually has a damage range with his gun. But lets be honest really schill is undercosted for what he does. If anything it wouldn't surprise me at all if schill and bishop switched costs in mk2 if it happens.

Granted the outcast doll is situational. But having joker control wouldn't be that bad in some crews the main problem imho is he is a doll so you can't use freikorps/special forces with him. And I just don't understand the hate for bishop on this forum. He is not bad at all if you do not use him to try to damage stuff (like the viks often need help with that lol) he is a great treasure hunt grabber and is pretty good as a def 8 tank that ties up models so they can then swoop in and kill what he ties up.

I think that hoffman with a toolkit would be a very good combo with Mccabe (when he comes out) in a brawl game. Being able to give tomes to both so mccabe's debuff spell has both suits built in would be nice.

A trio of night terrors is then 9 points however. I would think this would be just one minion for its point cost not in multiples. I'd reiterate the merc at 2ss, and daw at 9ss.

I had been up around 20+ hours when I wrote the post (thanks insomnia) so I wasn't thinking clearly. That is probably why their was a lot of dribble in the paragraphs. To the 3 points you say where I break down in order: 1. What would you value aramos ap at compared to ramos? Have to ask this one cause any further discussion from this point I have to know what you see the differance as. 2.I don't ever kill the toolkit turn 1. I keep it alive till turn 2-3 always. I will recheck what I wrote to make sure I didn't leave a false impression their. 3. To me I disagree on the last point. But I do believe it is matchup dependent. A fast mobile crew can get into you on turn 2 from their first activation on. Granted the majority of crews aren't that fast but often times the ones you often see at tournaments can/and will get into you that quick. Turn 3 to me is often the cleanup turn to me the way I play if anything is still alive from turn 2 where you hit. ---------- Post added at 02:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ---------- To sharpobjects in reply to what you wrote: I believe I play kaeris quite different than how most use her. Unless I am taking a list where she is obviously the main piece in the list. I often will only use ss on her for a critical immolate cast on a important model that needs to be dead or I use one for damage protection. I mainly use her to shoot stuff to weaken models spread some burning counters around and then accelerant to make a tough choice for my opponent in that do you want to take a damage flip on 2-4 models or take paralyzed. I really like her against neverborne due to smoldering heart for key wp resist flips. Please note however I am not saying one way is right or wrong in regards to her being in a ramos list. Also because of the toolkit normally alive till turn 3 I find she really doesn't compete with tomes for ramos. The only time they really do is on turn 4+ when ramos needs to make a creation again and potentially on that turn kaeris wants to accelerant. But to me I don't find it hard to decide which is more important to do that turn. Do you find that the lsa's stay alive against neverborne enough or do you use them as recurring tarpits in your list tieing up important models to buy time for aramos to get their resummon/kill said model they tied up? I often use the miner as a early game ss gatherer till insignificant then bury if against a ranged crew staying unburied against melee crews usually around 3 and move to kill a important backfield or second wave piece late game. I have yet to play a game where he survived to the end of the encounter but honestly I use him as a cruise missile late game when I have usually been able to clear the chaff away early game so he can get to where he needs to go unimpeded.

I wasn't talking about her as a leader just a henchmen (in all honesty I have only run her as a leader once when I picked up her box). I was just saying that as a henchmen she can always hire the student. Sorry if I confused people.

Kaeris can always take the student because henchmen can attach totems. It isn't special forces and doesn't prevent you from taking any. The only way you couldn't would be if you where already using 2 mercenaries in a list.

I see your point but I'd personally rather take a 3" all action. Than lose the rail golem + other stuff. Also with the student you can set it up in a place on the battlefield where each turn she+ kaeris are alternating recieving fast.

The problem is that you can take the student for the same cost with her or attached to kaeris and get that ap. Without having to forgo any msu asset.

Ah I see. In the above list I would go for killing the one I make on turn 1 personally if I felt like it couldn't carry its weight in a particular matchup. That way I forgo having to take something to kill myself altogether. Granted its just my view on this matter and there are probably quite a few differant opinions on the particular lines of play early turns.

As far as total # of scrap counters yes however given the above list (6ss cache) you would only have 26ss worth of models in a 35ss game (factoring in 5ss for lsa plus 4ss for a cache of 6). Granted you can remake the lsa with a 1ap hasty assembly but on turn 2-3 you are essentially giving up 10ss disadvantage to your opponent.

Yeah if I am up against something where the little spider won't be off much use against he becomes syphon essence target #1 or 2. If I have a use for him then I use the casting expert on 3 to combat medic (scrap from dead spider or toolkit) the miner back up 1 ap fire 1 ap manifest approach

I've heard of taking stuff to kill for the scrap but to me I find the (2) action preferable on turn 1 to not having to spend 3 or 5 soulstones of my list plus friendly model activations towards killing it. Essentially if you do this you are either playing against a 35ss list with a 30 or 32 point list. So imho me personally I don't prefer to take something I would have to kill myself (aside from the toolkit who is absurdly easy to kill due to it being easy to wound 1). I will often on turn two or three (depending if I can reliably do 8 wounds to stuff on just 2 elec fire casts however this is board position dependant) use casting expert for combat mechanic if I don't have a electrical fire target to heal the miner back up from his turn 1 all action. If I cannot get a second turn elec fire target (I often activate ramos later in the turn to see if one presents itself through out the turn). I often find it is not hard to find a moderate crow card between 2 turns of ramos surging and 1 turn of kaeris casting once or twice turn 1 to find a appropriate crow. Also I will always hold a 1-3 in my hand for a cheat on the toolkits defense flip to ensure a hit as well the turn I am going to manifest.

Bumping this to let people know I expressed my thoughts on this matter. Sorry about being late I passed out after the movie last night.

Pandora is just straight good and she never deserves mercy. This is also someone that played dita on her without question back in book 1 days.