Odin1981

He is a great model that had a npe type stigma about him back in the book 1 days. Do not know if it still applies but he is a wonderful attack from a differant angle type model. Always liked how he has a zoraida type hiring ability in that any ht 1 model can be brought with him. I like this mainly for arcanist doll plus sonnia for essentially casting master as the additional ap for her.

I like him also for using refuel against high def. It allows him to damage normally out of reach def stat lines. I have had that used against me to good effect (main reason perdita bit the dust in one game). I prefer using him as more of a tank model when I play him. I love the all action heal as a way of keeping him stick models in place while I use manuver elements to get stuff done/ set up mei for a grouped up mask, mask trigger activation as well. I have tried out him with ramos and Aramos as well and I really like him in a rail golem + mech rider combo. He also fuels up bc's quickly with kaeris (generally always has a turn 2 reactivate at the cost of 2 ap from her gun) also it can free up student for giving fast to whichever master I am using with the kaeris rail golem package. I really like regular ramos now with rail golem especially with the new gaining ground package. I feel ramos (no avatar) is a very competant master with the new package. Rail golem near him as a deterant plus arcing screen (the aura that gives stuff 2 wds for when enemy hits something) + armor 2 on either him or ramos is very nice and is a great attrition modus operandi (almost a resser like component). Don't own marcus/raspy so can't really comment on how he works for them. Like how he is durable + 3/4/6 damage range so he can grind out quite a few things (only minion model he can't really grind out is lelu because off poison+flay+3ap swings) over two turns.

Obey, walk into melee swing or flurry depending on model with a wp 8 when stubborn fransico doesn't mind, i2i perdita gunfightering doesn't mind after a walk or two. Stitched our a pain if you all gunline don't get me wrong but I believe the best guild lists are combined arms so they don't get hosed against obscuring effects. If people base their lists around a gunline yes they will have issues against at least one crew from each faction if not more in the game. But personally I would hate to play any guild list regardless of said master that is based around pop pop bang.

Colette : discard two cards, make one soulstone

Thunderous applause of clapping . God I still have nightmares about what book 1 and few months of book 2 paralized use to do shudder in corner .

I use kang with her only as 10t. I feel he isn't needed as arcanists in the configuration i normally use (kaeris + student + rail golem, or rail golem + mech rider). I normally don't push kang in till around 3-4 right away. I also attach metal gamin to him. Normally if you go armor 4 with mei with gamin unless opponent has armor ignoring attacks they just ignore her. Armor 2 they normally feel they can bring her down but usually fail. Kang early turns is backup counter charge melee duty helping to force the enemy to over commit to whatever I use as vp grabbers. I love his inheirant knock aside trigger on anything I want away from whatever or charge+melee expert to kill a weakened model or any model without armor or h2w that is 9 wounds or less.

So basically if you are attacked by a non master (ss user actually) you only need ss's for 2 reasons: wd prevention, and middle masks. Most vik lists I play at 35ss I typically use 4-6 ss cache (granted different strokes for different folks and all that). Unless you blow your load (hand) on a perfect storm scenario (3+ models within whirlwind range). I agree on avoiding von schill. I tend not to use him as well. However if I were in a 16+ event declaring outcasts I would consider using him after round 2. You don't use sister spell at all? Sword vik threat range from transport gun vik is 15" if you just walk once with gun vik. If you walk twice its 20" but like you said no buff spell. I would gather with 1 walk plus buff plus fast as push vik to x you can generally deliver sword vik buffed wherever you need unless you are playing against extreme mobility (collodi+dolls, krai, colette, dreamer) in basically 90% of masters unless your meta is very mobile centric?

Why do viks need stones for hitting? Sword vik is paired combat 7 with fury up and min damage 5. With the +3 to duel totals up she is effectively paired 10. The only time she needs to use ss to hit a model are more often than not if sword vik goes master hunting and said master is def7 or better. I fail to see the logic behind needing to burn a bunch of ss's on a sword vik attack activation.

Leve, Pandora, and hamelin are basically a game within a game due to their mechanics in how they operate. In reply to I was yeah that would have been nice, something like every change wyrd does when the rules get updated put what changes first show old then show new version so old players don't think they are too old skirting around worring about alzeimers lol.

You been playing a similiar one joel? Or did I just give ya a good idea to try out mate? I haven't seen alot of 10t lists using two torakage much around the forum so I figured I'd give it a go at trying to make one work.

I would never in my wildest dream use sonia against neverborne unless it were a fun game (lol neverborne and fun game) maybe just maybe if I knew the player only had dora I would use sonia but that is the only time I would. If they play stitched dita kills them fine in melee for no reprisal. However if they play doppleganger that is the first thing you must kill. You will normally have to win initative to kill stitched so they don''t 2 for 1 activation with them. Against ortega's (ie the good ones not the entire crew) stitched due about nothing unless they have been hit by a madness first. Also the wp duel they have since you are the defender is wp 8 against the base lowly attribute for stitched which is 6 (good luck on not hitting yourselves with that wp-wp duel stitched). I personally would not use hoff against borne but you could but the blanket i2i on hoff models can be removed fairly easily or entirely by their master choice (pandora). Dita hard comps dora unless the dora player is damn near pro level (if you run up to a great dora player its a coinflip basically who gets in first 3 shots with dita or mental anguish trigger from dora). The one constant with the borne faction is wp related abilities and effects (slow, poison, paraylized) if you build a a crew based around contesting that type action (austringers, ortegas, sue, stalkers and such forth) and don't go a route that often has been common in the last few years heavy i2i + nonliving options you will find surprising results. Also we are the only faction with both dispell magic as well as shrug off and it really helps against neverborne. A while back pokie I and a few other vets to guild did a collaboration thread I made on playing against neverborne put a search for it or start checking pages in guild forum from like page 14 or farther back. It is outdated (back from the book 2 days) but most holds true still. The majority of neverborne lists I face normally have a sizeable point limit % of book 2 models. Book 3 gave them dolls + tuco. I would make a gander book 4 gave them beckoners but it is still too early to see what else they picked up. Also in reply to the poster (mcmorning son I believe?) in the book 1 days guild (perdita), leve, pandora, and if I remember correctly viks where the masters most often you would see place in big events/complained about. Since then the placings with guild have dried up. But if I ever where to get involved in a pick your masters irregardless of faction and play I guarentee you one of the three lists I would use would be my often favored dita list (colette and more than likely a coin flip of either a viks crew build or my newly picked up aZoraida crew would be my other two). I lurked on these forums for around 6 months before joining but I started playing around a similiar time that joe from cheated fates started playing so I have seen the game change quite a bit (half the games I play I'm often scared I remember a rule incorrectly due to a previous version existing of it lol).

Zoraida is mitigated by not deploying models in los turn1 and largly ignoring here if you aren't playing claim jump focus on her crew and if possible try to not take many melee options for suboptimal obey targets. Dreamer is nowhere near the level of wtf that he was pre errata if you have a good deployment plan and don't send off models unsupported to get eaten to chumpy. Companion if advanced correctly on turn two will wreck a chumpy crew. The best we can do on the wp front is a crap ton of effective ortegas, possible addition of sue, stalkers, + any model that can buff crews wp. Outside of dita guild has crap defense however they have great wp stats + dispel magic/shrug off. The best thing that can contend with neverborne in guild is a high wp for their screw off effects/abilities + we are fairly even with them on the damage front. Often times guild vs neverborne matchups turn into damage races where generally guild brace for impact, borne hit first, then guild retailiate and get after everything in range of companion activation. But outside of 4 twin matchups (whoever thought up they should have been rare 2 each I really pray is no longer working for the company) they lack the amount of activations of their alpha to wreck the capability of a guild list in one swoop.

Ten thunders brothers can companion multiple models noob. They just have to be within 6" of brother mate recheck companion rules in the manual if you want the full lowdown on companion.

I think it in my humble opinion can be summed up to two things. Guild is pretty straight forward. It is kinda a double edged sword. It is good in that guild crews for the most part aren't complex so that the # of user errors are limited compared to complex crews. But every guild list you use for the most part as soon as you plop down your figures on the table the opponent will know what you plan on doing with the models you have selected as long as the opponent isn't new/unaware of what guild does. The second part of my answer is the lack of a break in case of emergency glass fire extinguisher. I often play in local tournaments in my area. I don't travel much so no idea about national meta but next year I aim to make it to adepticon due to family living 20 minutes away from where it gets played. But anyways I digress, the thing with guild is that they are a momentum based faction in my eyes you get a snowball rolling and it turns into a avalance at a certain point. However if the other player can steal your thunder it really hurts are faction in that we often don't have a way of turning the tables and getting momentum back. Often times nowadays if I feel like going to a tournament and doing well (top three finish if 16+ or top two if 8 or less) I would rather go with another faction due to the break if needed button. Nothing wrong with guild at all but we lack that as a faction compared to others. For me this means in any tournament that I feel like doing well in I go with arcanists. I really like the combo of two masters currently (mei+colette) because both crews no matter what I take in a game both have break if needed options. Where as with guild I personally feel outside of dita we don't (imho obviously I'm sure some people will come in chiming I'm incorrect) have a reliable option. Also I don't like being shoehorned into just running one master in a entire event.

Don't get me wrong I don't think they are bad but at least with 10t you have to compare what they do to desperate mercs. Granteed misaki is better suited for mercs cause she can bring up to 4 with her. But archers are the only ranged model in 10t currently, melee models with protection and/or mobility will make a bee line for them and once engaged they die (- flip on disengaging strikes good luck with killing melee hitter with bashes ). In that instance fire gamin could be usuable as tie up models that weaken a piece so that archers finish them off. But I think the game has evolved enough to the point that any faction has shooters whether it be inheirantly or threw mercenary addition that I really fail to see how a gamin (any other than metal) lives threw a dedicated shooters activation.

I have played mei as 10t a couple games. Most games I have played mei with arcanists. I have used mei as 10t with this list so far emberling, 1x metal gamin, kang, 2 ninja, 1 10t brother and 7ss. I like 2 torakage in this list due to shapes in the steam (kang + mei) and smoke bombs. My hitters are protected against ranged attacks via obscuring and ignore it when charging. Also mei as 10t I feel can do her best amount of damage via tora swap in a companion activation with both ninja's in that first swaps mei in after popping smoke down. Mei activates and scalding breath casting expert + tiger claw swings + 0 iron skin then 2nd tora goes and smokes then swaps mei out and has 1 combat 6 melee swing with a + on damage due to only friendly in combat if anything is still alive.

Austringer birds are good as well for the plinking damage they do. Not a real threat to kill unless rj comes up on a - damage flip. But they can have a good effect for inevitability in making the viks spring into action earlier than they want to. I normally run hamelin over hulk hogan cause I have a love affair with the obey spell in this game. But really the only thing that worries me is aoe damage on death models as well as high armor models (I don't run/own taelor).

Take/buy coppelious then, he is still only 9ss with hoffman and he doesn't get talked about much here amongst the hoffman users.

I think that would be to random. Unless you could cheat in a card and have it become a mask as well. Honestly I believe if granny had a +mask aura that excepted nino+santi just like nekimas does know (excluding lelu+lilitu after the errata) it would probably be fine (franscisco would auto trigger riccochete but he is more suited for counter charge tech anyways and you could use it to give dita a in built mask for obeys to lighten the dependance of masks prevelant to ortega's kinda like how I am in love with sublime performance on duet that is another crew that without that ability would be way to mask dependant) but their is also a crapton else with abuela that would probably need to be redone to make her worth her current cost.

If the + mask to a ortega wasn't a unending chain ala nekima + liluto it could be doable (in our case nino or santi with a never ending trigger happy until you miss). Maybe even abuela having that ability to give out could even make her more useful. But it definately could a tight rope to juggle with in how it would be implemented. The ability has to be worth including a model for. But then it can't break a trigger wide open balance wise.

Nino is 7 not 8 for cost. The problem with your list is barring dita you have no backup (melee hitter) plan when an opponent closes with you. That being said dita is a balanced option due to gunfighter but she can't be everywhere at once. Riflemen I don't know, people have said they like them on the boards but to me they suffer from the same problem that wastrels face in that they have no defense. Once something gets into them they die. Or a high # of crews nowadays have access to lures so they can just pull one into the gaping mouth of a melee hitter so they can be piece mealed over 1-2 turns to corpses. Nino can be avoided by smart placement by an opponent. Then you have to obey him into place at the cost of a mask which all off the above models use (nino, santi, dita, abuela). You are pretty much mask starved with this crew in that if you don't flip a good mask or cheat one in they are really lacking for options. Grandma while cool is pretty much a much worse totem and costs 350% more than the neph does. Hopefully she gets a look at in malifaux redux. Nino seems really good at first when you play but like samuel hopkins suffers once your playgroup gets hip to him. Also with him his damage mainly revolves around a headshot trigger but if your opponents keep trash cards he will rarely drop anyone other than a cheap model (nino spounge). Also santiago is so much better at finding masks due to paired he can reliably pull of trigger happy without help from hand in most cases. As well as having rapid fire plus crit strike built into his peacebringers he can actually hit something for more than weak (2 damage in this case). Also outside of dita who is needed for melee cleanup duty you have nothing in your list that can actually grab vp's reliably without first needing your opponent tabled first. If you just using this list for fun it doesn't matter but if you want it to do reasonably well in any strat except maybe slaughter/claim jump I think you will struggle.

+1 damage when targeting ca X models or higher, I believe X is either 6 or 7 but remember this is offhand so I could be wrong.

Just on the attack flip hence why it says + on strikes mate.

I run between 3-5 ss cache for her in games. Against some matchups I will go as high as 6 (viks, dreamer, misaki) or if she is my treasure hunt model. Normal list I run with her I have is 4 cache. I will normally use 1 ss for a enemy model obey. Usually 2ss are burned for init flips. Maybe 1 for a gunshot if red joker is in my hand/defense flip. Key point though with me is I don't play her far forward. She will be on the frontline but not off by her lonesome. Most of time I will mainly just obey my own stuff. But if I can make a good enemy model be isolated and way too forward I will obey them (recently played a game against kang and did this made the whole mei list have to rush up to support him and it made it so I could focus on who I wanted).

One thing you might want to use sidir with mccabe would be his ability that has a model + anything within range of target model take a df test or recieve slow. It would free up mccabes ap to purely just paraylize models for other minions to gib. Also with lucious included unless you just want to use 2 austringers with him he can often do just fine with one austringer and just cast deliver orders on 1 to save you 5ss for something else in your list. Oops other thread sorry about that.