magicpockets

+0.9 I agree wholeheartedly that if Hamelin is errata'd based purely on people's "OMFG HAMELIN IZ SO BROKEN!" (mostly from people who have only "heard" he's broken) then it will be a very bad thing. There are a few slight changes you could make to rebalance him which were discussed a while ago, but even then no-one was arguing he needed a complete overhaul (his avatar does though - just wait until that hits the table on a widespread basis lol). If I'm honest, if Wyrd really are reworking Hamelin I'd love to be involved in the testing etc - just to give a viewpoint from an in-depth Hamelin player (who no longer plays Hamelin so won't try to keep him unbalanced!) ---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ---------- Have to agree - I had a VERY different opinion of Ian until I met him, how he comes across on here is nothing like his real personality. He's very passionate about Malifaux and very, very, very good at playing the game and working out the details of rule interactions etc ([joke]second only to me in fact![/joke]) - the trouble is it comes across wrong on here if you don't know him. And, I hate to say it, but he's usually (if not always) right about stuff.

I didn't think you could take stuffed pigs without a Taxidermist - who is a Gremlin and unhireable by Hamelin? And yes, Terror Tots can be awesome with Hamelin - with a single 9:masks+ you can have a mature on the board turn 2, and a second not long after - for ZERO net cost. Also, don't overlook Sorrows with Hamelin, Doldrums (iirc - the paralyse spell) is awesome with Nix. And night terrors work very well too in certain schemes.

Wow, this could be Wyrd's new game - Fluff Wars

Oh yes, Pale Rider baby! cheers for this mate Now all I need are wardens and Lazarus...

The only rules on proxies are in Gaining Grounds and as they're Wyrd models they're fine. You'll only have an issue if your opponent really objects to it

That action, you test for every AP one at a time

^^ Just to add you don't need to be linked to use mimic or emotional trauma. To be fair, I personally don't think this is such a bad combo considering the DG costs 8ss and each Sorrow costs 3ss on top - and if the DG goes down (which is quite easy if you focus on her) in a heavy Emotional Trauma list then EVERYTHING goes to sh*t for the Pandora player. I'm not even sure if I'd agree with Dementia being changed having used it a few times and it working against me as much as for me! Although if it isn't RAI then it should get a little nip and tuck. That said, I'd be surprised if they changed any Book 1 models now...

I personally feel Alps are still "usable" but that for every reason you'd have for taking them there's a now a better 3ss option instead. For example, Night Terrors (significant and faster), Sorrows (as their inflicted wounds stacK), Desperate Merc+1ss (best pointed model in the game) - or even spending the extra stone for an Insidious Madness.

Just to chip in with the most important piece of Malifaux advice - build you list for your strategy, opponent and schemes, not just because you like certain interactions. There is no "all comers" list in Malifaux that can't be refined to include better models once you know the strategy (et al) - and with Levi you have such a big pool to choose from it's good to stay flexible

And that's the thing. Hamelin is the hardest master to beat not because he's "broken" but because it takes so much understanding of his abilities and thought on the opponent's part. I personally would never worry about an opponent putting Hamelin down against any of my other crews because I know him inside-out, whereas conversely I worry about Kirai because I don't know and understand how she works properly. I still think he needs toning down, but most of it is (unfortunately) L2PN. I just get the feeling sometimes that some people find it easier to complain he's broken than spend the time learning and practicing against him. ---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ---------- Can I just point out for those who don't know the UK meta, Tim (Oshova) is part of my local club and the vast majority of his games against Hamelin are against me. So his comments aren't based on playing a new/poor Hamelin player or anything - so they're a real good barometer

Don't get hung up on my SS Factory and the mythical "30 soulstones" (it's not that high) - Hamelin goes down REALLY easy in slaughter, it's just a way for him to try and even up the odds. People seem to have adopted my idea as a definitive way for Hamelin to win slaughter, it really isn't - it's the strategy he really struggles with and the ss factory method just helps him deal with it. 1. Bear in mind you have ridiculous activation control 2. Hamelin has only himself through which to achieve schemes (usually he'll take Gather SS though) 3. Hamelin has only himself to stop you achieving schemes 4. Hamelin has no models to sac to cast his spells (and if he summons a stolen he'll likely be left with a rat which you can kill) 4. It takes Hamelin three turns to get rid of his crew (in which time even Rasputina can get a bead on him) 5. If you get a single rat (from your own models) within 6" of Hamelin you have your entire army to get points from it So, get over to him, let him activate, kill a 2/3ss model within 6" of him and then go to town on the rat. Easy. [Craig I hope you don't mind me saying but this is a prime example of Hamelin "misinformation" - people think he's uber broken because they've heard that (in this example) he can't be beaten in slaughter and that's not the case at all. In fact, I'd be surprised if anyone who had actually played slaughter against Hamelin felt like it was impossible to win]

That's how I've always seen it played.

You sir, can have an "Awesome" badge. I need to play it again now!

Awesome, and yes I'd love more!

I really struggle to get A&D to be worth the money in a low ss list

100% - even in my just started thread on how to beat Hamelin I thinks there's enough info to reliably give him trouble. The fact no-one has ever (disclaimer: to my knowledge) suggested die or discard card triggers against his crews is a prime example - that's one of the best ways to take his crew down, but because it's a "different" approach it's overlooked. 1. People first play against Hamelin 2. They lose because they don't understand how to beat him 3. They speak to people or come on the forum where they hear Hamelin is broken 4. It's easier to agree Hamelin is broken rather than workig out how to beat him 5. They also start telling people Hamelin is broken 6. Person who's never seen Hamelin played hear's he's broken 7. That person "learns" Hamelin is broken 8. That person maybe plays against Hamelin 9. They lose because they don't understand and it reaffirms that Hamelin is broken 10. They come back on the forum and confirm he is broken 11. Rinse and repeat That said, I think he does need toning down - just not totally Cuddling

I more meant it in the sense that it starts people arguing, not that other people shouldn't have a view To be fair, there's some great threads on this with people who disagree with things I suggest and that could be a good starting point - I'll try and dig it up. In fact, I *think* we did a good job of reaching a consensus about some changes which could really make sense on this. My issue is that once you learn to play against him he's not as bad as people think - more WTF than FFS

Oh no......

As Sketch has confirmed they're looking a rebalancing Hamelin I wanted to politely suggest that his Avatar be included in that before it is released. Frenzied Piping has previously discussed issues (i.e. you can't practically use it) and whilst the idea is nice, the combination of Crippling Plague, Poxed Servants, Contagious Eruption, The Gift of Contagion, Piper's Swarm and A Tyrant's Judgement is insanely brutal - especially if you start to stack, kill and resummon rat catchers to get multiple Kill All Rats in the mix. It's a 20" Diameter circle of instant death for the entire enemy crew. Please take the above feedback as constructive, and please tread carefully with my very expensive collection of Hamelin models....

To be honest I've only briefly thought about it and not played Malifaux for a couple of months due to work (hence the lack of updating my three threads on here). My gut feeling is it will make a difference but there will still be some balance issues in the match up. And re Bette and SS Miner, I was a big supporter of the change and am glad it happened. It does change things, but only to the point of making them fair - we all agreed what we'd found was a hole and not a "strategy" so to speak. My gut is Bette is still a great include and I'll likely be running her still out of the waifs, but I think we'll be seeing much less of the SS Miner now. I'll try an get a game in with Bette as she stands now and try to report back. Trouble is finding the time (to put it in context, at work we've signed off more revenue this quarter than we did in the entire year last year - that doesn't leave me much time to get to events and tournaments really) What do you think to the changes?

+1

I'll put this in my diary. Please can I play Hamelin partnered with Dreamer on Sunday?

Just to say this has turned into a really great thread to read through. I was worried at first it would degenerate into "OMFG dreamer iz broken" but nice job everyone

You're right, but I don think it's too much of an issue as a lt of crews can get 3 scrap for 5ss

Agree very much with this, despite my fondness for abusing Bette and SS Miners in Levi lists. Also, I think all burying should be like Bette's, you cant unbury a model the same turn that you bury it +1 This is a very elegant option imo