Math Mathonwy

She seems like a cheaper and weaker version of McTavish. I feel like much of the time I would be willing to spend the extra 2SS to get McTavish instead but OTOH she doesn't need as much support to get full benefit so I'm not saying she doesn't have a place. I do hope that her Upgrade is a good one.

I have never been on a minis game forum where there wasn't a lot of talk about how to fix a given model. This behaviour seems completely ubiquitous and I'm very surprised that here it is somehow being pinned on there having been an open beta. Wyrd has also fixed lots of models. Samurai, Karina, Nothing Beast, TT Archers, Oiran - all got powerful Upgrades (many of them zero-cost!). And all of those Upgrades were needed and the game got better since they were introduced. Malifaux 2nd introduced the idea of Upgrades and I think that they are perfect for this sort of thing. Much less invasive than outright errata. And Wyrd has used this powerful tool and hopefully will use it in the future as well. Finally, if you have 49 Masters in a game this complex, it would be an utter miracle if all of them were equal in power. One has to be the "worst". Now, personally I don't think that it is Yan Lo but still, that sentiment is hardly going to go away by not doing open betas. Edit: *shakes fist* damn you, Myyrä, I'll get you some day!

Can you name one box of three models that contains two women and one man? Does the answer to this question make you think? Boxes with only women are for those models whose fluff casts them as exclusively female such as Oiran and Belles and such. The sole exception to this is the Ronin whose fluff doesn't define them all being necessarily women. But no other box of models includes "randomly" all women. And if a box includes a woman, it's always one woman and two men. White men really, really don't have a problem of representation in media. They just don't have that problem so representation is generally less important to them.

I'm not debating whether the ratio is realistic or not, I'm asking why this is suddenly such an important detail to be realistic about when a Gremlin toddler being able to kill Nekima with a wooden spoon isn't? Feel free not to answer (like you skipped all the rest of my points after chastising me for not engaging others') but if you do, please try to engage my actual argument

I didn't, but it's a bit uncontrollable unless it's of the loudest kind so decided not to mention it. I also didn't mention, e.g., Raphael's push out of engagement or Francois' Push or Moon Shinobi's or MacTavish's, or War Pig, or, or... I did however forget Brewmaster who is pretty damn good at that.

At the very least you're forgetting Zoraida and Mah Tucket. Also sort of Lenny, Burt and Assistant. And if the ability to move friendlies counts, then Piglets, Ophelia and of course a lot of ways to move Pigs around in various ways.

I must admit that I'm a bit disappointed that you called me out about not responding to stuff and when I respond this is all I get. Especially weird since it doesn't really address my point. Why is gender divide all important to realism while electric bass guitars aren't? Oh, and a Dalai Lama quote which doesn't really apply in any way, shape or form. Oh well, here's a good quote of mine, then: “You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.” ― Ben Goldacre, Bad Science

Thank you! Much appreciated! Really love the new 5-cost Minions. Interestingly high-cost Henchmen and Enforcers, though. I kinda thought that they wouldn't be all that powerful since they aren't complicated but cool. Nurse Heartsbane being 8, though - really, really interested in seeing what she does!

Why is it so important to retain historical accuracy in the gender divide when it isn't important to retain it in whether magic exists or not? Or whether electric bass guitars exist on the battle field as valid weapons? Or whether drunk green midget hillbillies can kill a giant demon with a wooden spoon? Not all Malifaux males look like Urijah Faber or Dominick Cruz. Nor like Andy Murray or Roger Federer. Here's an olympic gold medallist in hammer throw: http://www.jazzmess.com/test/olympicathlete.jpg How many Malifaux women look like her? So would your enjoyment of Malifaux been lessened if one of the two male Torakage had been a woman? Or if Angel Eyes had had a shirt? Because that's essentially what this boils down to. That's what you're fighting against.

The learning intro sounds good. Any chance of getting a bigger pic of the renders? As the render pic is tiny (the minis are smaller there than in the main starter pic). Also, as long as I'm making requests, any chance of getting an idea on how costly (in SS) the Bloodwretches are? I think that Neverborn could really use a cheap generic beater Minion. Also, why are Bloodwretches written together while Void Wretches are separate? Very interesting that all the minis are Mercenaries. I wonder how Angel Eyes will work with I Pay Better... Could be interesting depending on how her gun works. Finally, I can totally not recommending McMourning since much of his box is unusable when playing as Guild. Finally finally, do coroners have nurses in the real world?

It's all a part of a bigger pattern. If the game doesn't cater to women in the fiction and the gaming material, then it will see fewer women players. I don't think that this is a big logical leap to take, though naturally it's very hard to conclusively prove or disprove. But the great thing here is that it really wouldn't harm anyone! Or at least I have a really hard time imagining someone's enjoyment of the game getting crucially diminished if Wyrd included those two female Torakages every once in a while in their mook boxes. I don't feel religious about this at all. I have been thinking about this stuff quite a bit and have come to the conclusions that I have through thought, not sermon. As for derailing threads - it always takes two to tango. The original post critiquing the gender balance of the starter was one post and quite topical. Then it spiraled a bit unfortunately indeed but that wasn't the sole responsibility of the socially conscious faction. So maybe it's the status quo curmudgeons that are the religious ones? As an aside, most of these conversations, from my point of view, seem to go somewhat like this: A: "What's wrong with the status quo?" B: "This, this, and that. And fixing it isn't hard nor likely to impact on your enjoyment." A: "But what's wrong with the status quo?" B: "Also this and this besides the stuff that I already listed." C: "Shutuuuupp B!!1eleven!" D: "Hello, I'm a mod, let's lock this thread since it got heated." And I'm not criticizing the act of locking threads. I understand why it is done. But most of the heat seems to come from the drive-bys. I was probably the loudest voice in not liking the name. I found it simply inappropriate for minis games. Similar to how I would find Ösama Bin Ladle inappropriate. The fact that it was accidental doesn't really enter into it. But what if her new name is better? Was Lizzy Lovelace really the epitome of a cool name that can't be topped? Because I have full confidence in Justin and the rest of the Wyrd team to come up with a brilliant name for her. So there really wasn't a downside from my point of view in hoping that the name got changed. That said, I'm far more devastated by the band than if the name had stayed. I just find the band utterly and completely silly.

Aye, I wouldn't either, which I tried to convey. And Tara was the result of a campaign so a bit different as well, I think (though I'm not quite sure of the exact workings of how she came to be).

Brewmaster, too, surely? And Shen Long? And Tara sorta, though not quite? And elevating Jack Daw and Wong. But those aren't comparable, really. But you could've had two female plastic Death Marshalls

There's a lot about minis games making them "old boys' clubs" which breeds horrid behaviour as was described. A lot of male gamers simply don't know how to act around women (gamers). I witnessed a team tournament of WHFB where the teams were randomly formed. One team had the sole woman player and two young men. I chatted around with various people including the woman. Apparently her two team-mates completely shut her off. They didn't listen to anything she was saying, told her to deploy in a flank and move forward with no other input. Her opponents ended up talking more to her than her team mates. I mean, this is far less of a story than what Ferossa described but it ties directly into game play. And she wasn't a noob (or at least I have seen her pink Lizardmen in several tournament - I don't really play WHFB competitively anymore). And what I'm most flabbergasted about is what are people afraid of? Having two female Torakage instead of one doesn't seem like it should be the end of the world. Or two female Latigo Pistoleros to pick a box which isn't out yet. Or having one of the Guild Guard being black? And getting a couple of new female players maybe? I really don't think that the request is unreasonable or worth fighting against?

Now that's a self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one. "Women don't game so why try catering to them?" Also, are these the same women who don't play video games? You know, those gamers who are 52% women?

I mostly agree with you but a couple of things. It does work well with Somer due to Skeeters and Wong can also do it somewhat nicely, as can Zoraida but since it's a (0)Action it has heavy competition from other nice (0)Actions that the Masters have. So if the Wp stuff forces the Gremlin player to use Liquid Bravery each round, they aren't doing something more annoying. Ooh a Girl for example is a fantastically powerful and versatile tool. Not really disagreeing but I wish to note that when you're doing ten points of damage, Armor isn't really a problem for the elite Gremlins either. Also I'm surprised that Rgarbonzo, the great Lightning Bug fancier of the forums, finds Armor troublesome

Violence is make-believe because the minis aren't actually doing violent stuff and, furthermore, seeing violence doesn't inspire violence in normal people. Sexism OTOH is real simply because there's a huge disparity between the representation of the genders in Malifaux. Both are, for the most part, depicted as male fantasies. Female fantasies look different and they aren't being catered to. And that is sexism. That's all there is to it. It's real as it is what is happening. And the thing I don't understand is why some people are so adamantly defending the status quo. Would making a mook box with two women and one man ruin everything about Malifaux for you? Would everything come crashing down if there were a few more "burly chick" minis around? I really see no downside to it so it's bizarre how a lot of people seem to be mortified by the mere suggestion. I, at least, enjoy variety on my painting plate.

Agreed! Marcus is a great character and his only problem is that he is 50% of the black population of Malifaux. If there were more black people in the game, he wouldn't be in any way problematic but currently it's a bit weird. That would certainly be something wouldn't it! But currently I would settle for a box of three non-exclusively-female mooks where there's two women(!) and one man. And maybe the doubling of the black populace

Yeah, there's an ISO standard. Unfortunately it costs quite a bit so I can't just give it to you Yeah, somewhere really fruitful where your mind is absolutely open to what other people say and you're ready to reconsider your opinions in light of what someone might say In all seriousness, sexism in minis games is real while violence in minis games is make-believe. I'm not going to go into it further since I doubt it would be useful but just to be able to say that I did answer you.

I do agree with you. However, his outward appearance is straight from "yellow peril" posters and not really from Naruto-enthusiasts (whatever they look like). Not saying that there is anything wrong with the mini or the concept but it is quite jarring to a casual on-looker. So yeah, agreed. I'm talking about official artwork here as that's the only reasonable comparison point. I mean, even if you have greenstuffed shirts for all your female models, it really doesn't help the core issue Also note that aside from skin tone, race often has an effect on people's bone structure, facial features, and hair, for example. Some of those are too small to really depict distinctively in minis but others not so much. Finally, the two black people in the game are a prison brawler and a king of savages. Of course the background for both is a lot more nuanced (and especially Marcus' certainly subverts the stereotype very profoundly - and Ironsides is a woman) but the core concepts can certainly be seen as somewhat problematic.

First of all, you could take your own advice and stop reading and posting if these topics upset you so much Second, it's hard to stop looking if that something stares at you from across the table. Third, you're conflating sexism and inappropriateness. Some things are bad since they are sexist, others are bad because they are inappropriate for a tabletop minis game. Censorship? Please. Also note that I, for example, am in no way against nudity. Nude minis are awesome. But it has to serve a purpose. I think you're winning quite handsomely currently. So maybe we should get, say, 10,000 of those burly chicks and then start releasing both styles alternating one after the other?

May I suggest painting the headstone and giving the rest a very light light red wash?

Not mine and not a great pic, but: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11407254_10207211120665159_1304323250074380732_n.jpg?oh=9dc339badc5eec44e0eda2163063e2e6&oe=562E6494

These are really NSFW and are demonic but might work for a really in-your-face style: http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=incubi-party-%283%29~hfxmp02&category=fantasy-%26%0D%0Asteampunk~fantasy-daemons-%26-faerie

There's like, two black people in all of Malifaux. I mean, yeah, they have lots of Asians and some Latinos but that's it. It's still extremely white (and Asian). And you won't believe how racially problematic a different forum found Wong...