Math Mathonwy

I'm weirded out by how you manage to have an unpenetrable zombie wall for Nicodem while simultaneously bolstering your troops every turn while sitting in the middle of the table with a very squishy Master without being harmed by anything in a tight cluster of models that are still all over the table performing strategies and schemes. It seems that your theory combines all of the best case scenarios into a whole that doesn't seem very likely in a real game situation.

The combo is expensive, yes, but it gets these sorts of results: Now, I suppose you can argue that Nix's opponents sucked immensely or something but, realistically, it seems that the combo is extremely powerful, works from very far off and is very hard to nullify in a real game situation. Realistically I'm not sure you appreciate how hard it is to resist the lure, especially inside the circle of doom, but also outside it.

wow All of that stuff needs Nico to activate first. Winning initiative isn't guaranteed (actually, I tend to focus all of my theorizing on losing the initiative as that is the situation you need to prepare for). You honestly think that's as much as Dreamer or Pandy is doing in a turn? Wow. Preaching to the choir here. You do realize that you need to resist it six times and each time you fail, it's more likely that you get inside the circle of doom that makes resisting even harder, right? I mean yeah, if you get an absolutely killer hand and awesome flips, you can trivially beat the trick. Taking five Punk Zombies is a huge gamble against the Neverborn, really.

I can see how the list would have a hard time against Dreamer, but why Zoraida, out of interest? As for the trick, I'm kinda surprised that people (well, Q) insist that there is nothing wrong with it and that it is fine since you can use Fog to shield yourself from it. Fog, that is cast by one of the slowest models in the game who likes to hang back as opposed to being a front line piece in a game where speed is of the essence for 90% of the strategies and schemes. I mean, sure, there are situational counters to the trick if you think of it in a vacuum forgetting the true aim of the game. Doesn't mean that it is fine. Did Masters have some kind of qualifiers? As I thought that it was just a normal tournament and there were newbies as well as hardened tournament players present? An honest question as it is entirely possible (indeed likely) that I have missed something and that Masters was indeed somehow only the cream of the crop. I thought that the first Gremlin dude was pretty highly skilled? A bit disappointed at the Red Jokers in the last game. It did even out, but if only one of those had happened it would've had a crazy effect on the game through no fault of the player (as they were minus flips). Still, I know that I'm alone with this opinion so c'est la vie, I suppose.

Ophelia is one of the better starting crews in that the box is all useful and needs only two blisters to make a very formidable crew. Get a blister of basic Gremlins and a blister of Slop Haulers. Young 'Uns are also good, but they are insignificant so if getting just two blisters, I feel that the first two I mentioned are better. But once you have the Young 'uns, there is not much more to the crew and you can start either looking at expanding to Som'er or another crew altogether. So yeah, an excellent crew to start with. Plus, they are really powerful. The only downside is that they really struggle in a couple of match-ups (Hamelin, Dreamer, Pandora) so if your regular opponents favor those crews, I would go with something else than Gremlins altogether.

Huge thanks Necromorph for listing the avatars and minions - much appreciated! Would Lenny work with Ophelia-led crews or is he mostly synergistic with pigs? Armor sounds nice since Ophelia-Gremlins tend to bunch up around her.

There's a longer thread about this here (including notes on weirdness and non-reliability of ICv2): http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21664 (And I think there was one even before that, but not 100% sure).

Brofist! Colette is the complementing Arcanist - she is their answer to the situations where the other Masters might struggle. OTOH there are very few situations where I would take Marcus instead of Colette. Finally, I believe that you're an above average player so you will most likely do well no matter the crews you choose

But not any two crews, mind. If you don't have Colette for the Arcanists, you are in deep problems in many match ups and scenarios. If taking Marcus as your second Arcanist Master is a liability, then I'm not sure that the game is truly balanced in a meaningful way even if faction vs faction produces acceptable results. Also, people keep saying that there is a time and a place for every Master yet suggesting using only two in a faction seems contradictory. To be fair, there are autowins in that certain match-ups in certain scenarios mean that one side has a gigantic advantage (Slaughter being the obvious example, but there are others). And it might not be readily apparent at the picking level (i.e. not as obvious as "never take gremlins against Outcasts) so picking the "wrong" Master might be simply a toss-up. And, again, you might not own the specific countering Master needed if you only have two per faction. I agree that on a more micro level there certainly are pretty obvious imbalances in the game (Alps being an excellent example).

And then we need to wait for a year to get them all released But yeah, agreed.

That... doesn't seem to have anything to do with what you quoted and seems, all in all, a very random thing to say (though certainly true). Edit: ah, I just realized. You read "what this is based on" as asking who said it. No, I meant, how is it provable. The designers naturally say that things are balanced but that is true of every game. I mean, surely GW designers aim for a balanced game as well. That doesn't prove balance one way or another, though.

The thing I liked the most in the UK rankings system suggestion was the rankings for individual Masters. "Who is the best at playing Marcus?" is an interesting goal for the non-tier 1 Masters as well and works nicely even when the game is played as it should be (i.e. taking the best Master for the task even if it means that one is playing Colette 90% of the time and Marcus 1% of the time (balance!)). And interesting thread might be "here's the opponent's faction, here's the strategies - which Master will you go with and why?" Taking the board layout into account would be a tad hard so maybe a generic board could be agreed upon (a forest and a house in the middle and a river going across length-wise).

What is this "factions are balanced" based on? Simply on there being so many variables in the form of models and schemes and terrains and such that they've somehow just got to be balanced? It's a pretty bold claim, you know. It's a bit like claiming that shooty dwarves in WHFB are balanced since if there's a deep gorge between the armies they win but if there's a thick forest right in front of both deployment zones they lose. Or if the scenario is about keeping the enemy from reaching your deployment zone (win!) vs trying to reach the enemy's deployment (lose!). Now, I really, really don't agree with ispep's views of balance but I'm somewhat skeptical of the off-the-bat acceptance of "factions are balanced". Not saying that they aren't, mind you, just that claiming it is pretty bold.

I'd say that boat sailed when the OP chose the title for this thread.

I'm also in the dilemma of how to get differing Mindless Zombies. I'm thinking of making three bases with just grasping arms and hands coming from the ground. If Wyrd ever releases a second pack of MZs (please please please) I can use the grasping hands as objective markers or something.

Actually they mostly just grow in size with him. I mean, just look at those cuffs! Even his hat(!) grows. His alt has already shredded them clothes for the most part.

Historically, I agree. Eh, it's not quite that bad, I don't think. When I still played in the WHFB tournie scene, my basically unchanging 2000 points of Vampire Counts did very well for many, many years. Also note that Daemons of Chaos really never did very well in 40k once people got the faintest idea of how to play against them. At leas if the Hamelin player doesn't know what he's doing. I'm almost 100% sure he means either Alkemy or Helldorado. ...or maybe that Spanish game... what's it called? Oh yeah, Nemesis!

Ah yeah, I seem to always take at least two Belles so they aren't competing for the same slots in my force as the Autopsies would have, so to speak. Ooh, I hadn't considered them since I don't play Kirai (just Seamus and, well, Nicodem as soon as I can think of how to do Mindless zombies without duplicate minis), but now that you point it out, they seem like they would work very nicely for Seamus, at least. With the new profile for the Night Terrors, I could see an out-activation strat working nicely for the Ressers.

You have a really cool highlighting style that I'm sure works extremely well on the tabletop. I mean, just look at the highlights on Nicodem! Doing them like that takes serious guts - brass balls, man! I also note that you have really put some thought into the faces of the minis. Bete Noire's is absolutely brilliant and Necropunks have a whole lot of character. Strong vision. Kudos!

On a different board but twice now by different people. Ah, OK, that was kinda my thinking on the matter. Thank you!

The County Medical Examiners, a death metal band formed of two... well, county medical examiners, and a jazz drummer, have made a song about this: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggc4K8igp08[/ame] For the lyrics that explain the process: http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/thecountymedicalexaminers/splitwithgeneralsurgery.html#9

I see them recommended but on paper they seem kinda bad compared to, say, Necropunks or Crooked Men. I'm most likely missing something. Anyone know?

The only problem with that is that this is a skirmish game that is marketed as being playable straight out of the starter box. And that works for friendly games but then, if you wish to take part in a tournament, you'll need three or four Masters with maybe some overlap in minis but not necessarily (Outcasts, I'm looking at you) and suddenly you need something like 40 minis in order to play at skirmish game tournaments. I dunno, has this really been the idea all this time? Furthermore, I've understood that fixed Master tournies have been the norm in some places of the world. Is that a wrong way to play?

You put glue on both sides of the join, a tiny blob of green stuff on one side and then press together. It helps in some joins, especially if the surfaces are uneven and don't fit together all that well, but I don't see it working in Vicky's case.