Trigger Precedence

[keeperofgrudges]

Had a fun game yesterday between Mei Feng and Ophelia's Gremlins - lots of timing questions arose from triggers on Attack Actions vs. Defense Triggers - both using the "after damage"

Example 1:

Mei Feng uses (1) Jackhammer Kick on Rami LaCroix. She lands it causesing 2 Wds.

According to Mei Feng's Jackhammer Kick Attack she should now push into base contact with Remi. However, Remi managed to get his Defensive Trigger "Squeel!" off and he should push 4" away from Mei Feng.

So what happens first and where is the ruling? What is the end result Mei Feng in base contact with Remi or Remi 4" from Mei Feng?

Example 2:

Kang uses his (1) Whomping Shovel attack with the "Good Whomping" Trigger on Ophelia

The trigger on Kang's Attack Action say's "After damaging, target is pushed 3" directly away from this model."

However, Ophelia's Defensive Trigger "Second Loudest Squeel" say's, "After suffering damage, push this model up to 4" in any direction.

It would defy logic that both triggers go off, so which one has precedence and again how do you know? FAQ? Errata? Rules clarification, page number Base Rulebook?

Thanks!

[furysblade]

I haven't got my rule book handy to check but I believe there is a call out box in the section on triggers stating that the defending player chooses a trigger first and then the attacking player chooses one.

I'll try and check the page number after work.

Theres also something in the errata relating to these sort of situations on www.malifaux.com

[MasterDisaster]

This could be of assistance, it's taken directly from the lastest FAQ/Errata found here : http://www.malifaux.com/Downloads/M2e-FAQ-Errata-01-01-14.pdf

Q: When Mei Feng triggers Thunderous Smash from Jackhammer Kick does she push into base with the enemy model before or after it is pushed 3" away?

A: Thunderous Smash is a trigger with the language “after damaging” which means that it is applied after Step 5: Determine Success of an opposed duel (rulebook pg. 32). During Step 5 the results of the Action are applied and one of the results of Jackhammer Kick is being pushed into base contact. So, Mei Feng would push into base contact, and then the target would be pushed due to the Thunderous Smash Trigger.

Q: What happens if Mei Feng targets Pandora with Jackhammer Kick? What happens first, Pandora’s Fading Memory, or the push from Jackhammer Kick?

A: Fading Memory occurs immediately after success, and the push portion of Jackhammer Kick occurs when applying the results of success or failure. Fading Memory would happen first, pushing Pandora. Then Mei Feng would be pushed into base contact due to Jackhammer Kick.

Edited January 21, 2014 by MasterDisaster

[mythicFOX]

Neither of those examples are relevant here, as neither of them are interactions between two after damaging triggers.

There is a paragraph about it in the book but I don't have mine to hand.

[Thaarup]

Rulebook, page 32, last two lines;

If two Triggers would resolve at the same time the Defender´s Trigger is resolved first.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Now the only thing that makes that a little interesting is the wording on Onslaught, the trigger on Killjoy.

Onslaught: "After Damaging, immediately take another (1) Ml Attack Action against the same target. This Attack Action may not declare Triggers."

Coupled with something like "Squee!" I see this as though Onslaught is resolved first. Totally accept if this is wrong, and to be honest we played it wrong in a tournament this past weekend if thats the case. However, the on the spot ruling went for Onslaught before Squee because of the immediately.

What have others been doing/ruling on this one?

[The Godlyness]

Squeel would trigger before the second attack. Since the second attack generates a new duel and possibly new triggers (for the defender). In your kang referance she would squealing 4 then pushed 3 to defy all logic.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Squeel would trigger before the second attack. Since the second attack generates a new duel and possibly new triggers (for the defender). In your kang referance she would squealing 4 then pushed 3 to defy all logic.

Yeah makes sense. Thanks for the good example.

[keeperofgrudges]

Squeel would trigger before the second attack. Since the second attack generates a new duel and possibly new triggers (for the defender). In your kang referance she would squealing 4 then pushed 3 to defy all logic.

That's just awesome... Goodbye Ophelia... the weirdness in that is that after pushing 4" in direction of choice she would push 3" from current location directly away from Kang... awesome!

[rythos42]

I think Jackhammer Kick is a different situation entirely. The push-into-base-contact is a part of the action, and not a trigger on the action.

My take on it (sans-book and sans-Mei's-card) is that you would do damage (because it's listed first in Jackhammer Kick), then the Squeel trigger happens "after damaging", then you would continue reading Jackhammer Kick and push her into base contact.

That second Q from the FAQ, I think heads in this direction. (but I also don't have Fading Memory on hand. )