Diving Charge question, needs LoS? Misaki

[Da Git]

Hey guys,

This came up in a game tonight & would have made a massive difference. When Misaki performs a Diving Charge does she need Line of Sight?

Arguements for:

Since she ignore all intervening terrain it means she ignores the blocking & dense traits on the terrain too.

It's fluffy, She is essentially jumping over everything (in dramatic ninja style!)

Master of Malifaux is different (Lileath can't ignore intervening models)

Unimpeded says it only ignores severe for movement so that's different.

She could do it last ed! (this one is poor!)

Arguements against:

It doesn't specifically say she doesn't need LoS (which it did in Storm of Shadows, but that is a whole edition ago so the rules have changed!)

Thoughts?

Since I play 10T, I'd love to get a Rules Marshell's ruling!

[Dracomax]

I don't think she gets to ignore LOS, terrain just doesn't get in the way of drawing it. It's an important distinction, because models also block LOS.

Also, RUles martial rulings are no longer official in M2E. According to Wyrd, only official Errata/Faqs are official rules.

[Barnaberible]

There is another thread for this somewhere and it was also discussed on twitter

I think the gist of it was she needs line of sight to declare the charge (as per the rules) as her card dosent say otherwise and then after she has declared the charge she is charging and ignores terrain etc.

so yes, she does need line of sight for diving charge

[Da Git]

Thanks for the speedy reply!

Alright, I think I'm on the right track here, in Misaki's case she completely ignores LoS for terrain & models (she ignores them too!).

Eg.

If I'm on one side of a forest (or however high wall) and her opponent is on the other, I can charge them as long as I'm in range?

Does she also ignore the penalty for climbable (so she wouldn't need to go up & down the wall in the example above)?

Edit: posted as Barnaberible did, that changes things...

[Barnaberible]

try these links

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?46979-Division-Charge-Augmented-Jump-and-LOS

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?47210-Ignore-terrain-LOS-and-elevation

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?47203-Incorporeal-Question

[Mike3838]

The first of those links seemed to come to the conclusion that Misaki ignores terrain and models during the whole of the charge action. The first part of the charge action is "Target a model within LOS". Sounds like you can ignore terrain and models for drawing line of sight, which means Misaki will have LOS, even though a different model in the same situation would have their LOS blocked by things they can't ignore.

[Da Git]

Thanks Barnaberible, had a second look, some them just had interesting spellings!

They actually seem to support my arguements, Diving Attack is written a little differently to Augmented Jump. It appears Von Schill need LoS, but Misaki doesn't as his says "while moving" whereas hers is for the entire charge.

There's also this one: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?40178-Misaki-s-Diving-Attack&highlight=diving+charge

Which again supports that she can ignore LoS

Sorry for the repetition, seems this one comes up a bit!

Edited October 10, 2013 by Da O&F Git

[Barnaberible]

I didn't get chance to read the threads I posted I just dug them out, i think the last one you posted Da O&F was from 1.5 rules before the edition change

I thought it was generally agreed she did need Los but I could be wrong, only on mobile at minute so will need to have a look later

[Barnaberible]

All replies in the first post seem to say she does need Los the way I read it.

Misaki's card states 'may ignore....when it takes a charge action'

The rules for actions pg 37 state step 1 declare action and spend ap, declare target, check los, take terrifying test etc.

So the question is; is declaring the charge action the same as taking the charge action, I would argue you declare it before you take it (after all if you fail the terrifying you won't be taking the charge)

The card states it may declare a charge action while engaged, so if it could ignore Los when charging would it not say ignore intervening models and terrain when declaring a charge action instead of when it takes a charge action?

Also the fact that LJ and Lilith cards specifically state they don't need Los while misaki's dosent would make me err on the side that she does.

But then again in 1.5 you didn't need Los for diving charge