Question about Lynch's Ace in the hole.

[Hotpants]

Ace in the hole says when an Ace from this crews deck is placed in the discard...

My question is does your hand count as your deck? Do the aces i play from my hand go back to my hand or do only the aces I flip from my deck go into my hand?

Thanks.

[roboshmoo]

Your hand is not your deck....it needs to be flipped from the deck itself to count.

[Hotpants]

Definition of deck from the rulebook: 'Central to malifaux is the deck of cards that each player uses to determine games effects, which is called the Fate Deck (or deck). Each Deck is comprised of 54 cards'. Is my deck not the combination of my hand, the discard pile, and my unflipped cards?

It's never come up in a game I'm just curious.

[Rhonlore]

Based on the wording of Ace in the Hole I would agree with Hotpants.

As long as the Ace ends up in the discard pile during a friendly models activation, I would say you could then get to draw it, regardless of how it got there.

[Fenton Crack]

This is an argument that has continued on since the wave one beta that, aside from an official FAQ ruling, will not have a satisfactory consensus. I have seen it argued both ways with various semantic arguments, but neither side seems to concede any ground.

[Joel]

The only reason I can see that the "from your deck" bit is in there is to distinguish it from your opponents deck to stop you taking their aces.

Flipping or cheating with the cards from your deck of 54 will trigger Lynch's ability, allowing aces to be put back in your hand.

from the definition of deck given above, a deck is always 54 cards, never more or less, regardless of where some of the cards from it happen to be.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Joel

[zFiend]

We played with my friend so that if it was used during a friendly activation even from hand, he'd get it back. But it felt a bit ridiculous as he could keep attacking with severe+weak with the illuminated thanks to maul trigger.

[Joel]

We played with my friend so that if it was used during a friendly activation even from hand, he'd get it back. But it felt a bit ridiculous as he could keep attacking with severe+weak with the illuminated thanks to maul trigger.

Eh? Not sure I get that.

Illuminated have flay, which allows them to cheat damage even if they have -ve flips. They still have to hit though, and having an ace back won't help with that. They also don't do severe+weak. That is only on a red joker and is for every model - and that's not affected by either the flay trigger or lynch's ace in the hole ability either.

Think you might be missing something (or I am).

[zFiend]

Eh? Not sure I get that.

Illuminated have flay, which allows them to cheat damage even if they have -ve flips. They still have to hit though, and having an ace back won't help with that. They also don't do severe+weak. That is only on a red joker and is for every model - and that's not affected by either the flay trigger or lynch's ace in the hole ability either.

Think you might be missing something (or I am).

Yeah I am definetly missing something. We played it so that red joker was the ace as it was the only card with a numeric value of 14, since those what seem to be aces are with weak power and come of as ones, and why'd anyone want those back?

[Joel]

The aces are worth 1

You'd want them back because lynch can use them in 52 card pickup upgrade, and his crew can use them to get defensive stance or flurry without dropping cards. Lynch also will have a bigger hand size for his final debt attack if he takes that upgrade.

[zFiend]

The aces are worth 1

You'd want them back because lynch can use them in 52 card pickup upgrade, and his crew can use them to get defensive stance or flurry without dropping cards. Lynch also will have a bigger hand size for his final debt attack if he takes that upgrade.

I see.. Thanks well no wonder he swiped the floor with Lynch

[Ausplosions]

Awesome.