Crew Selection - Lilith vs Ophelia

[dwx2]

I am playing a 35SS scrap against Ophelia Lacroix this weekend. I wanted some thoughts on crew selection.

Here is what I was thinking of taking -

Neverborn Crew - 35 - Scrap

Lilith, Mother of Monsters

--

5 Pool

• Freikorps Strongarm Suit
  [10ss]
  
  
• Young Nephilim
  [6ss]
  
  
• Young Nephilim
  [6ss]
  
  
• Young Nephilim
  [6ss]
  
  
• Young Nephilim
  [6ss]
  
  

Alternatively I could take a Mature Nephilim instead of the Strongarm. They are the same price, They both have armor (Strongarm has 2 or 3), They both have flight (Strongarm has to cast augmented leap). I was thinking the added durability of the Strongarm and Lilith's crew lacking any range attacks would be worth it. Also I can grow the Young Nephilim into a Mature.

I think my opponent is planning on the following crew - Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Ophelia Lacroix -- 4 Pool

3 Young Lacroix [6ss]

• Bert Jebsen [6ss]
  
• Gracie [7ss]
  
• Rami Lacroix [6ss]
  
• Raphael Lacroix [6ss]
  
• Wong [6ss]
  

[Hunter-thom]

Do you have Nikema. That would make life a whole lot more dangerous for your opponent. cause they need a wp flip to hit her. she can give the youngs auto flay and you could start with a couple of tots and grow them with only 5s needed and some des. Mercs. which frees up some points for something else like a primordial magic giving you the extra card and an extra cast of earthquake. by turn 2 you could have almost the same list but with an extra tot and a totem I think. And the auto flay makes them so much more of a danger. Love it

[Finnegan]

Facing Kin, I'd recommend Coppelius. He can auto-paralyse (no resist) any model with low willpower, which applies to all of them, which is very convenient against a SS user like Ophelia. Rami would be my first target for transpositioning: get him paralysed with coppelius then just harvest his blood in your own time, and never worry about his sniping anymore. If you replace the strongarm with Coppelius you'll save a Soulstone too

As long as your opponent doesn't field the Pigapult, you don't need to fear their ranged combat. Stay out of sight, transposition key models, making sure Wong can't bounce the spell, then go in for the kill once the ranged threat is gone.

I would also consider replacing one of your Young Nehpilims with the Black Blood Shaman, who can help the rest of the team with healing and buffs using the gremlin corpses as well as produce more blood counters.

[M_Ruckuss]

1)I always prefer terror tots and the BBS, along with a desperate merc to sack. BBS can give the strong arm fast, you get more terror tots, and terror tots have a higher defence, meaning they can cheat higher than all of the gremlins bar ophelia and rami.

2)Never leave home without the Primordial magic- drawing 8 cards a turns (like a 9th of you deck) plus liliths cycling shennanigans plus card you discarded the turn before is fantastic.....

3) If you are genuinely stuck against the gremlins take Lelu and Lilitu- you will be very likely to win....

[The Godlyness]

Step 1. walk lilith 18" up the field, if can get into combat do so. if not hide in cover.

Step 2. get in combat. and stay their for the +on df

Step 3. ????

Step 4. Profit.

[Therril_83]

I love Tuco against gremlins. His veil appearance, together with Hard to Kill and Regenerate makes him very hard for the gremlins to take out. But my gremlin-opponent doesn't take that many unique gremlins normally.

And if you want to use transposition, I'd suggest taking atleast one model that you don't care about throwing away, like a terror tot or a desperate merc. That way you have something you can just throw into the midst of the gremlins while picking one of their models (Remi is a good choice) and butcher amongst your own models.

But it's also quite nice to throw Lilith into the midst of the gremlins, her Df8 is amazing, and if they try to shoot you with aim high, she's even harder to hit with Df9+ (remember that you get +1Df for each model you are engaged with against a ranged attack).

The thing I fear the most when I play against gremlins, without a doubt, is the Young Lacroix totems. Their ability to run 12", cast Right Between The Eyes at another 10" (I think?) range is horrible. It's not a ranged attack spell, so no cover or randomization or +Df, and they can use soulstones to boost it. Against a non-SS user, it's a pretty sure 5dg. Just that from a totem is nasty. Then consider that there's 3 of them! That's a rather safe 15dg from 22" away, if they want to focus a big target down quickly.

[dwx2]

Do you have Nikema. That would make life a whole lot more dangerous for your opponent. cause they need a wp flip to hit her. she can give the youngs auto flay and you could start with a couple of tots and grow them with only 5s needed and some des. Mercs. which frees up some points for something else like a primordial magic giving you the extra card and an extra cast of earthquake. by turn 2 you could have almost the same list but with an extra tot and a totem I think. And the auto flay makes them so much more of a danger. Love it

I do like Nikema, but I don't like the 13ss cost. Also the HT 4 makes here a tempting target when firing into malee. I've found that she is target early and can't stand up to concentrated fire.

I don't have any desperate Mercinaries at the moment, so I might pick up some today. I chose the cherub instead of the primordial magic.

[jonboy]

Pay no attention to this guy, my gremlins are going to take him down

[Enki]

I have had a good deal of success using a swarm of tots and using the PM to transposition Lillith around. You should be mobile enough to not be an easy gunline target, and once you're in mele your golden.

Don't underestimate the value of many black blood models against gremlins who need their wounds to bolster themselves.

Make sure to put lillith on ophelia right away (within 1") and eat through her stones and wounds before she can retaliate. The plus flip on the great sword really helps as well for doing decent damage when you hit and making it a hard decision for ophelia to eat the black blood to retaliate or use an ap to back off an inch.

Also try to sprint a tot into mele with Rami and Raphael. It's amazing how many problems these tots can cause these two.

Keep in mind (though it's not in his list) that a slop hauler can ruin Lillith's day reducing her df to 4 with no resist. Keep her away or kill immediately if you see it.

At least that's what I do, if you win the positioning battle is always key against kin.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Enki

[micahwc]

I really dont see why you would take a strongarm suit unless it was just because you liked it. I think 3 tots and a soul stone would help you more as it would offset their activation advantage. I think another young, a tot and soul stone would work well. Replacing 1 young and the strongarm with Lelu, Lilitu and two stones would be good. Really, you have a lot of good options you could use here. Tuco and 3 extra stones instead of the strongarm, etc.

Really though, as long as you constantly use cover and abuse transposition/illusionary forest I don't think you would have too much of a problem.

I like young nephilem lists, as I think they are awesome for 6 points. I dont think there are many strategies where young nephilem don't work well.

Edit: Also, for 10 points I like Taelor. I think she offers Lilith a lot of what Lilith needs. Something tanky, and still very deadly. The magic weapon of death to constructs is a bonus.

Edited April 12, 2013 by micahwc

[011121]

having played gremlins against copelius I can say it was a remarkably unpleasant experience. Stitched are also great as gremlins tend to have low will and be shooty (stitched have lots of wp attacks and can use fog to block ranged lines of sight).

[ddot]

Sounds like you're trying to be friendly, which I respect, but I love Pandora vs gremlins of any sort. With low Wp, they are custom-made for Pandi shenanigans.

I think you should bring terror tots. If things work out, you will have epic Ht 1 on Ht 1 action, maybe with room to grow, if you know what I mean. :1_Happy_Puppet2:

[Ozz]

I have to say, tots seem like a fantastic idea vs gremlins, due to they can not be shot over the ht1 walls that often litter my boards great to hide and then sprint them into combat, even if they don't get to attack that turn. They still can not take advantage of Aim High, until you eat a gremlin or 6 and start growing:)

Lilith - 7ss

10 terror tots

Primordial magic

Highly impractical list to buy, but the thought of that list vs a gremlin gunline amuses me, especially when the only model they can shoot over a wall can just summon a fresh forest every turn to hide behind:P So easy to hide:)