The New Hamelin Ins and Outs.

[poulpox]

Ok, so I had a few more games with Hammy, and one thing I realised is that Stolens do die pretty easily, which means that if you play Hamelin quite aggro on the front line he is very vulnerable to counter attacks (my opponent wisely goes after the stolen first, then after Hammy, using Viks or Mei with their multiple strikes per action).

Furthermore, while Hamelin's Cb for the staff is good, he is actually better at range and casting.

So what I'm wondering is this: do you guys use Hamelin as front line, or do you keep him back behind a rat/rat-catcher line? One issue I see with leaving him back is that his pipes have only 10" range, so if he is behind the rat line, when models will be in range they will also likely be in melee and thus no longer targetable with the pipes.

Thoughts?

[PokiePrawn]

In my only game with Hamlin, I got one shot off against Mei and then was in melee the rest of the game. That was exactly the problem against fast masters. He actually held up OK in melee, but not great. I actually used him to tie up Mei the Rail Golum and Kang long enough to allow my other minions to get a tie, but it was a rough day.

Next time I am going to keep him a little further back and use him more to counter attack against models that get through the rat line.

Can we order the new V2 (V3?) cards from the Wyrd store yet?

[poulpox]

Yes I think I'm going to try that too.

Dunno about selling the cards, I don't think so. I've printed mine on shiny satin paper and they look nice!

[Nephilim Nate]

I'm only a few games in but think there is lots to do with Hamelin but it would seem you do need to bunch. Hadn't though of starting with one Rat Catcher. It's nice and easy to summon a new one. You could start with some more stolen to kill off or just top save an action for first turn or two.

As for Hamelin in combat, he's fine. Just keep at least two Stolen about (not that I've managed this yet). Make the major threat insignificant to waste there high cards and he should survive if you have some SS left. Keep Nix close with Emptiness on too. There is also the risk if the kill a stolen they become paralysed so they makes them use another high card.

Enjoyed reading through this thread, good to grab some tips.

Have other found Nix very useful? he's died quick the few times I've played him but opponents where out to get him from the start.

[PokiePrawn]

In my 2 games he has lived and earned my MVP in the first one (he actually didn't do that much, just the rest of the crew sucked). He is hard to position, he needs to be close to the action and in range of rats, enemy models, but also somehow protected. I kept him safe by Obediencing dangerous models away from him and cheating high to avoid hits. One good magical attack will kill the puppy. Also if you activate him and can get other models at a negative flip that is great.

As for my general thoughts after my 2nd game is that he is effective, but can be tricky to use in game play terms. I had to have lots of counters, markers etc to remind me who was at negative flips, who was -2 wp/de, who Nix is/isn't getting plus flips against, and finally blight counters. There is also the rats summoning and sacrificing models to make it even harder to work things out.

These issues will likely come with some more practice, but my opponent was a bit frustrated with the mountain of details.

As for Hamlin himself I had him move up and attack in my 2nd game and he didn't die (almost). He is pretty tough, and has a lot of wounds that he can get back fairly easily. I tried to Black Staff people to death my first game, and this game I just ordered his minions around (aided by Stolen). It was effective, but I have not used either his power Ruffian or his ability to make someone Insignificant yet in either game.

I do find I run out of rats. I get one Stolen a turn who turns into a rat which I need for spells, but most of the dying is taking place outside of Hamlin's or the RC's 6 inch range so my swarm just shrinks making things harder to do.

Edited February 27, 2013 by PokiePrawn

[gorillawizard]

In the three games i've had so far i've won 2 drawn 1 (7-0, 4-4, 4-2) at 35pts using:

Hamelin

aHamelin

Obedient wretch

Nix

2x Rat_catcher

4x Rats

6 Cache

The Draw was a rather fun game of claim jump vs Sonnia, i thought from the begining i would be on the back foot due to blast damage but it helps keeping Hamelin and 2 rat_catchers in range to spawn a new rat .

Avatar Hamelin seems to be pretty good in scenarios where your opponant has to have significant models due to the fact that enemy models with blight counters count as insignificant when aHamelin is in play. Its also really easy to spread the blight as when a model with blight counters dies everything with in 2 inches gains a blight counter.

Cant remember the second game but i know i won 7-0, but the 3rd was great fun for me and not so much fun for my opponent (Lynch) when i healed the 9 wounds he did to aHamelin with the copious amounts of blight counters around. Unfortunately for him he flipped the black joker for individual stratergy so i chose contain power mwahahaha!

I use a 6 SS pool just so the manifest requirement goes off by the 3rd turn, you dont really need aHamelin until atleast turn 4 tbh as he does lose some of his better abilities (Ruffian, voracious rats) but he's then able to bring out upto 3 rats a turn which come with blight counters and then goes up to Wp9.

In 2 of the games i never even summoned a stolen and the Obediant wretch is just there to give me a card in my hand for the first 3/4 turns then companion with Hamelin just before he avatars to do her ALL action, if theres something in range ofcourse.

[Nephilim Nate]

I've had another game now and understand more. I think Hamelin is hard to beat but also hard to play. You need to get everything right otherwise you could get in trouble quick.

I think at 35SS I would take

Hamelin

Nix

Wretch

Rat catcher

2 stolen

4 rats

and 6SS

I think keeping a Stolen on hand is useful, once you get blight out there you can Bleeding Disease and you can sacrifice them, get rats and make people use WP. Plus when people have to kill them first it doesn't leave many cards for hitting Hamelin. With Pitiful and a chance of paralysation.

You do need to keep grouped. Making things insignificant seems like a waste of time but when it stops them getting objectives and have a WP 13 duel to hit Hamelin (usually at -2 due to stolen)

All in all I think he's good fun as long as you can keep track of all that's going on.

[Kalkris]

I have a question for the lot of you:

How many rats is enough rats? I ask in terms of the ownership of X Malifaux Rat models. What number do y'all find is best for you? And what is your meta like, so I can get a scope on that?

Thanks!

~Lil Kalki

[poulpox]

Hiya!

I have 14 and haven't managed to field them all yet (but only played a few games with H). The recommended number I've seen previously was 12.

[Hunter-thom]

Haha I started this thread ages ago and having just read through it now i can't believe how many different ways people are playing H. I have been using him to beatstick the opponents master the last few games. and its worked great. 1 action to ignor negs and pos. then charge enemy master and pop 9 damage everytime so far. then its finish them off with nix or my spare tot.... i've been taking 2 tots 3 D Mercs and a rat catcher and the wretch sometimes some more rats and i've even taken the brutal eff. the healing flip spell is very usefull. i've had my tot grow to mature every game so far and its worked pretty good all you really need is one 9 of masks and the rest falls into place and the mercs cost the same as rats anyways.

Its been fun, i'm thinking of trying candy with this list soon without the tots, but even though it may take a while with a mature neph doing its toss aside trigger 2 times i can have him in melee with 3 attacks on the turn i want and he can cover 20inches in the process. might not work everytime but its great to do... I don't really care if its unstylish. loving everyones ideas

[Vanilla_Dice]

Have had a couple of games with Hamelin now and thought I'd contribute....

Keeping things like rat catchers out of LoS and then having rats within range to essentially be unkillable before charging forward is awesome.

The fact that if a stolen is killed or sacraficed it will summon a rat, combined with the fact that you can start the game with some, will mean that Hamelin will eventually have at least a couple of rats around him if you take the main swarm away to do things.

Game I played last night was shared contain power against lady j and managed an 8-4 win thanks to Hamelin taking a beating from the j dawg and then dishing it straight back.

That's the other thing, keeping those stolen close enough to Hamelin, but say around the corner of a building where they can't be seen.... Makes him stupidly tough to kill (he was still alive to lay the smack down after 2 turns of double severe RJ damage from justice)

Always will take nix for the neg flip aura, and also a staple is gonna be baby kade for me, he's creepy and nasty and can take enemy by surprise.

Oh and I've found out..... I need more rats..... I have 9 and I ran out in the game last night.

[Trevelyan]

Oh and I've found out..... I need more rats..... I have 9 and I ran out in the game last night.

I have 12 and that has always been enough. I'd hesitate to go for 15 since I doubt I would ever need that many unless I was trying to get rats out at the expense of trying to win (or I was playing someone who kept running weak models into vocarious rats range for me to kill, I suppose)

[PokiePrawn]

I find it hard to keep rats around. I have 9, but never needed any more than about 5 at 35SS. Am I missing something? I start with 3 on the board, and I tend to play crews with smaller model numbers.

But, how are people getting so many?

Also, in Contain Power... it says Insignificant models don't count, do could we not just make the other master insignificant and they automatically can't get the 4 points?

[Kalkris]

Oooooh... That's rather underhanded! I LIKE IT! >

That is, if it works. lol

~Lil Kalki

[Vanilla_Dice]

Main reason i was getting so many rats I think, apart from the 3-4 enemies I killed, was from sacrificing stolen to either keep Hamelin Alice or for spells, if you sacrafice a stolen it will still summon a rat through "inevitable fate"

[EnternalVoid]

Also, in Contain Power... it says Insignificant models don't count, do could we not just make the other master insignificant and they automatically can't get the 4 points?

And thus the rest of us are lucky it does not say anythinga bout Insignificant models in Contained Power. Either in the little book's or Gaining Ground's rules. Contain Power is one of the scenerios where being Significant or Insignificant don't matter so much.

"Victory

If all of your opponent’s leaders are no longer in the game at the end of the Encounter, you score

2 VP.

OR

If all of your opponent’s leaders are no longer in the game at the end of the Encounter and were either killed or

sacrificed by your leaders, you score 4 VP."

[Hunter-thom]

I have the avatar and have taken in the last couple off games. however i seem to be having a lot off trouble getting it out. I think it may be due to the way i've been playing hamelin, as i've mainly been using him for hunting down the oppenents master and then beating them stupid with my staff. but i've had trouble getting the spells off at first and then i switched to trying to use my pipes to get a obey kill. however when ever they see me trying to do either out comes the huge cards and i just end up taking the addvantage off them not having any big cards left and then going for the kill next round or whatever. Anyone know off any surefire ways off getting the avatar out early?

[DireTrollJake]

So, what are the "required" purchases to play him now? How many rats/ratcatchers after the box? Anything else out of theme NEEDED?

[Trevelyan]

So, what are the "required" purchases to play him now? How many rats/ratcatchers after the box? Anything else out of theme NEEDED?

Ratcatchers come in a blister of two and are rare 2. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that pretty much everybody will still have two ratcatchers available.

You probably need the same number of rats as before. The changes to Hamelin don't really do much to reduce the potential for rat spawning, they just prevent the Hamelin player from killing his own rats and summoning replacements over and over again for extra activations. That being the case, the prevailing wisdom is probably to take a dozen. I've never needed more than that in the past, and they come in blisters of 3, so the next step up is 15, which is far more than necessary unless you use aHamelin and deliberately try to churn out rats (or find yourself fighting kamikaze melee gremlins or some othe fringe case).