Misaki's beatstick, Taelor, Otototo, Kang or someone else?

[*Jack*]

Okay, I'd quickly like to discuss 2 things in this thread:

Firstly, Misaki has access to all of the new beatsticks from book 4, Kang, Toshiro, graves and ototo. She also has access to taelor for no extra points, giving her 5 very similar 8pt melee models to choose from.

My first question is, which of these do you think is best? For various reasons, including whats good against what factions. They all have various degrees of survivability. Taelor has hard to wound and hard to kill, kang heals the turn number, ototo has hard to kill and gets better when he's damaged... I'm struggling to see a clear 'Winner'. I'm thinking of using ototo just for theme, but then, I like taelor and really fancy picking up the model.

My second question is much more general... Does Misaki really need a melee monster like that lot? She's good enough to take any master or big threat on, one on one, and her minions, yamaziko, torkage, 10T brothers, ronin, are all good enough to hold their own in fights. Wondering if those 8pts might be better spent on 2 oiran, or similar.

[Korrosion]

Ten Thunders Crew - 35 - Scrap

Misaki, Mistress of the Ten Thunders

--

7 Pool

• Kang
  [8ss]
  
  
• Ototo
  [8ss]
  
  
• Taelor
  [8ss]
  
  
• Toshiro, the Damiyo
  [8ss]
  
  

Seems fun for shared slaughter? Competitive no, but fun, yes!

[osoi]

They each have a different prurpose, having a second beater in your crew gives options and multiple threats so approach each one individually.

Taelor - The slowest of the lot but durable, hitty and good fun, I would say she is the best for holding point. She does gain a bit of extra mobility over her usual incarnation with Misaki as she becomes 10T so is able to be used with the Toraswap.

Kang - Is as much support as anything else, I think really good when you have an all living crew yourself and against some Neverborn builds

Ototo - A melee Santiago that rips through Ressers, and will generally always get where he wants to go

Toshiro - If you use Toshiro I eally see that you want to go all in and change your crew build completely, you will want a couple of Punk Zombies and a couple of Ashigaru otherwise you arent getting the most benefit out of him. What this does is gives Misaki a whole new type of crew build to work with

[sharpobjects]

I usually never take more than one 8+ stone model in my crew, even playing at the 35 stone level.

I would take one of the 8 stone models mentioned that best helps Misaki face the different factions. Such as Kang against most Neverborn masters because of his ability to assist falling back models. Or taking Taylor if facing Arcanist who have a lot of models with armor.

I would not say that Misaki needs the 8 stone model but at the 30-35 stone level I would definitely consider one. The 8 stone model chosen can assist against different factions as mentioned above and the 8 stone model can be used to out flank your opponent forcing them to possibly split their force to deal with the 8 point model.

I could list pages of tactical reasons why she would benefit from having the right 8 stone model in her crew. You should start out by playing her with each one and seeing which performs better with her.

[BlueStar86]

The Tora swap makes Taelor a freaking terrifying proposition.

[gonzo917]

I run Taelor pretty often with my Viks so she's the only one i can really comment on.

Pros:

-Good against contructs.

-3in melee range

-Menace can keep a model from running from Taelor and Misaki.

-Can push models 3in with Hammerstrike. Good to clear objectives or to move slow or activated models though doesn't always work. (Keeps Student of Conflict on the move when he uses Assist)

-Has a master value CB, wd and damage output.

[EnternalVoid]

Taelor - The slowest of the lot but durable, hitty and good fun, I would say she is the best for holding point. She does gain a bit of extra mobility over her usual incarnation with Misaki as she becomes 10T so is able to be used with the Toraswap.

How is she the slowest? She has a Wk/Cg of 4/6. Ototo has the same movement but rather than 3" on his weapon it is 2". And while Grave's has a one better Wk/Cg he also has a 2" melee which puts him roughly on par with her save she can double walk and still swing unlike him. Finally Kang has a 4/6 as well and a 2" reach. So in terms of movement only Grave has people beat on just distance but Taelor has the advantage of longer reach then all of them to help make up for hers a bit.

To me generally you will see Taelor or Ototo in a Misaki list if you are having a secondary beatstick. Each has advantages over each other and things they are better at facing. Which you will take will depend on what you value higher. Ignore armor, Ignore hard to wound, ignore hard to kill, Wp4, Wp7, and Furry are generally the elements you will be deciding on. Which you take will generally fall to preference or some factor of these elements and where you value them.

As for Kang and Toshiro, those are more corner cases in a Misaki list. They strike me as the item you add for specific ideas or crews. As such their uses are less but at the same time can be a surprise when you take a Misaki Toshiro semi undead crew.

[Blog]

They are all good with Misaki, as a beatsteak, except that each one has a specialty. Toshiro and Graves are about movement, Ototo for pure pwnage, Kang for pwnage with a bit of support, and Tealor who moves you around whilst being a beatstick

[PeregrineFalcon]

I used a Misaki, Graves, Ototo mix on Sat. at a tourney and it worked quite well. It was for a Shared Claim Jump and therefore the combo of Ototo + Graves for that was amazing. Sure Willie pulled a crazy Red Joker while detonating a spider mine and took ototo's carefully left 5 WDs, but it would have worked .

Seriously, a Ototo + Graves combo can work really well. As with everything in the game of Malifaux, it is situational, but in Claim Jump I see no reason to not take Ototo + Graves when playing Misaki. They can focus on strategy while Misaki jumps around clearing models your opponent is trying to get to the claim jump.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I played a game last night where using Ototo worked really well for a Supply Wagon strategy.

Overall, at this point I'd rate the 8ss 'beatsticks' as follows (where priority is given to those with more versatility):

1. Ototo

2. Taelor

3. Graves

4. Toshiro

5. Kang

[dgraz]

That list changes based on who you are playing. If my opponent announces NB then Ototo goes right to the bottom of the list since his WP sucks........whereas Kang goes to the top, since his is high to start and he can buff WP for others. Making friends Immune to Morale duels and auto-rally is pretty great too.....for that matter, he may be better against some Rezzers that use a lot of Terrifying.

[PeregrineFalcon]

That list changes based on who you are playing. If my opponent announces NB then Ototo goes right to the bottom of the list since his WP sucks........whereas Kang goes to the top, since his is high to start and he can buff WP for others. Making friends Immune to Morale duels and auto-rally is pretty great too.....for that matter, he may be better against some Rezzers that use a lot of Terrifying.

I don't agree that Ototo goes to the bottom. His 'Laugh Off' can give him the same WP as Kang. Furthermore, when he is Engranged his WP goes to 8 if he has Laugh Off activated. I totally disagree that taking Ototo with NB is not a good idea.

[dgraz]

Just been on the receiving end of losing Initiative too many times. Or what if I want to use a Torakage first to put Ototo into combat? Or if my Master is in danger and need to activate them first? It's like Chess....I have to sacrifice my Queen to save my King.

Unless Ototo goes first and actually puts Laugh Off up.......well, one 5ss Stitched will destroy him. That's too big of a risk for me when I can choose to put a model in that doesn't have to worry about that, like Kang or Taelor.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ototo....more than any of the others honestly....and I gladly take him every chance I get. But against crews that predominantly attack WP, he stays in the box.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Just been on the receiving end of losing Initiative too many times. Or what if I want to use a Torakage first to put Ototo into combat? Or if my Master is in danger and need to activate them first? It's like Chess....I have to sacrifice my Queen to save my King.

Unless Ototo goes first and actually puts Laugh Off up.......well, one 5ss Stitched will destroy him. That's too big of a risk for me when I can choose to put a model in that doesn't have to worry about that, like Kang or Taelor.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ototo....more than any of the others honestly....and I gladly take him every chance I get. But against crews that predominantly attack WP, he stays in the box.

Yeah, I totally see your point there. I do consider the same issue you describe with Initiative, but I still think that this versatility of him being able to increase his WP is a good quality that puts him at least above Taelor in the same situation. Maybe Kang at the bottom of the list isn't fair, and I do agree that list totally changes with your opponent, but from a versatility perspective I think the list holds.

[EnternalVoid]

Against Neverborn Ototo's stock does go down but to be honest I would still take him over the daimyo. That said I might reach for Taelor first as she has higher base Cb and Wp but I would not rule Ototo out. One of the big stock with Ototo with me is that he can heal himself. In a recent game he prolonged his eventual death by using his spell once a turn to keep getting him off that last wound. It was a witchling stalker getting disrupt magic near him and putting itself at explosive range that finally got his number.

For me it helps that I am one of our groups primary neverborn players and the other two that play them often have Lilith and the Dreamer as the first masters they reach for. But still if I am taking Yamizuko then I have to consider Taelor over Ototo, though I will miss the healing.

[dgraz]

But still if I am taking Yamizuko then I have to consider Taelor over Ototo,

Could you expand on that. I don't get what difference it makes whether Yamaziko is there or not.

[Kadeton]

Could you expand on that. I don't get what difference it makes whether Yamaziko is there or not.

If anything, it seems like Yamaziko would help overcome some of Ototo's shortcomings.

[dgraz]

If anything, it seems like Yamaziko would help overcome some of Ototo's shortcomings.

That's what I was thinking.....hence my confusion.

[FearLord]

I don't want to put words in people's mouths, but I would assume the point he's making is that Yamaziko could heal Taelor, resetting her hard to kill in the way that Ototo can for himself...

But I would agree that Ototo is just as useful with Yamaziko - either for a double heal or so that he doesn't need to use a (1) action to make a heal...

I like Ototo, but I don't think Laugh off is an ability you can rely on to protect you against proper Wp crews... Taelor and Kang are probably the better choice Vs Ressers and Construct Masters...

[EnternalVoid]

Could you expand on that. I don't get what difference it makes whether Yamaziko is there or not.

Fearlord has it. I like being able to put wounds back on my beatstick if all possible. Gone against to many Lady J and Lilith to think that with out it they will stand long on a dedicated strike. I have stopped them from killing Taelor or Ototo in one turn before with careful positioning and timing but with out a way to at least reset hard to kill, or at least top off your wounds if a minion did some, it makes it easier for them to sneak the kill.

I am not actually a fan of having Yamizuko do her +2Wp ability unless I think I have to have it as it is a (1) action where her healing spell is a (0) action and will not prevent her moving as much or possible helping out. I have only used the +2Wp when I needed to make an already good Wp rougher or had no other choice. Giving Kang or Taelor the +2 Wp puts them both on the high end where it merely lifts Ototo to a good but still manageable end for my opponent *more so if I have to save his activation till later in the turn*. Where Yamizuko might help make up for Ototo's weakness in concerns to Wp, she makes Taelor or Kang a solid rock in those fields if you need her ability and she supplies an in turn heal which can reset their Hard to Kill if your opponent tries to 1-2 punch them with out companion.

Also while I love the fact Ototo can heal himself, the fact it requires actual AP is both an advantage and hindrance. It means I can do it twice, but is also means that it limits my movement should I want it. This came up in a recent game where a Guild players Austringers were trying to finish off Ototo. The Guardian had put 4 wounds on Ototo before hand and then the two birdmen were picking away at him rather nastily. Before I knew it I was hovering at the low end of life. That said I needed to advance, namely to get the Austringers into smacking range, but I had to try and save an AP for healing. It meant I had to risk walking and trying to get with in 2" that turn *which I was barely in range for*. Sure a Torakage can help there *and boy have they at times* but sometimes it is not always possible to get the position and in this game I did not want a Torakage due to the Strategies that we ended up with.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Just wanted to come back to this thread and let people interested know that I used Taelor and Yamaziko in a game vs. NB. I ended up going against Pandora (my first time actually).

The crew I took was...

Ten Thunders Crew - 35 - Scrap

Misaki, Mistress of the Ten Thunders

--

5 Pool

Shang [3ss]

• Taelor
  [8ss]
  
  
• Ten Thunders Brother
  [5ss]
  
  
• Torakage
  [6ss]
  
  
• Torakage
  [6ss]
  
  
• Yamaziko
  [6ss]
  
  

Have 3 7WP models and 3 6WP models (and only 1 5WP) was nice. While it would be nice to have Kang for something like this, I don't have his model and don't plan on it. I think Taelor should be a sufficient supplement even though she only has a 4/7 Wk/Chg.

We actually didn't get the finish the game, but I was able to kill Coppelius in turn 2 with some nicely placed smoke bombs and Misaki.