Killjoy + Blood Price + Timing question

[Skunkdog]

This is a relatively simple question I hope.

First the specific text on Blood Price

Blood Price - Starting with the third turn, if this model is and play and does not have an enemy model in its melee range at the start of an activation phase, it immediately charges the closest model. (This is the V2 text for Killjoy)

My interpretation is that he charge occurs in the "Start Activation Phase" before any model from either crew activates. For Killjoy this amounts to an out of turn Activation that is limited to the Charge.

I just wanted to be sure that the charge happens at the Start Activation Phase (which happens before any models activate), and not the start of Killjoys Activation, which would mean he essentially has to use 2 AP to charge.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[MudgeBlack]

The Blood Price effect takes place at the start of Killjoy's activation.

Killjoy activates

Checks for enemy in melee

Yes - let the beatings commence

No - Charge the nearest target

[Skunkdog]

Not sure I am convinced. There is a "Start Activation" step which is Step A in the small rules manual, which is then followed by the "Initiative Flip", which is then followed by a "Alternating Actions Step" (what we normally do most of the time).

The wording on blood price is confusing

the salient bit

"if this model is and play and does not have an enemy model in its melee range at the start of an activation phase"

Models activate, they do not have an activation phase.

If Blood Price starts when Killjoy activates, then I agree with your interpretation

If Blood Price occurs when the "Start Activation" step of Activation Phase occurs, then I believe my interpretation is correct

I would need a good reason to prefer, purely based on the text of Blood Price, that it happens on the start of Killjoy's activation. In which case the much simpler wording of "When this model activates..." would have been much clearer.

---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ----------

Apologies. I do not want to come off as sounding rude. Just looking for an ironclad reasoning that could not be argued. I just don't think the text of Blood Price makes 100% clear... the wording is somewhat ambiguous in my opinion.

[The Godlyness]

I read it as a free charge before any models activate.

[Skunkdog]

Any other takers on this question?

So far the tally is 1 for, and 1 against ....

[Ratty]

Note this ability has been Errata'd to

NOTE: - 'Blood Price' If Killjoy does not have an enemy model in melee range, it will Strike the nearest model in melee range instead of Charging, or Charge the nearest model if there are none in its melee range.

[Skunkdog]

Ratty (and others),

Apologies, but not sure that input fully helps clarify the actual question.

I do get that that the Note that you mentioned states that Killjoy gets to melee strike the nearest model in the event that he is already in melee...

Still the question I really need the answer on is when does the effect of Blood Price occur:

On the third turn or greater does Blood Price occur

A) at the "Start Activation" phase before all models have activated?

or

as soon as Killjoy activates?

This hugely affects how you have to play that model. It ended up being a thorny argument in a game that was recently played.

I would also like to point out the vague text on the V2 card

Blood Price - Starting with the third turn, if this model is and play and does not have an enemy model in its melee range

at the start of an activation phase

, it immediately charges the closest model. (This is the V2 text for Killjoy)

I bolded the clause that is causing trouble for our gaming group.

Should "at the start of an activation phase" be interpreted to mean:

A) When a model activates (not my belief)

When the "Start Activation" phase occurs (my belief)

C) One person in our gaming group that I consulted thought it should mean when any model activates (meaning Killjoy would get multiple free charges, not my belief)

The problem is that the text on the card does not perfectly dovertail as a matter of verbiage with a dinstinct concept from the rules book.

Basically because the text does not specifically say something like:

At the start of this models activation

or

During the Start Activation Phase

It is leaving an opening for arguments about what Blood Price is asking us to do.

Also just wanted to say I have tried reasoning this out using the text of the card and the rules manual, and even though I believe I am correct, I also completely see how my opponent can defend and insist that his interpretation is correct. When I am faced with such situations, my usual instinct is to abandon using the model in games.

Honestly and in a larger sense, I believe that many rules disputes in the game could be helped by more precise verbiage on the stat cards, but I also understand how difficult it is to playtest a game with virtually infinite possible interactions and interaction interpretations.

Despite these perceived flaws, this is the best table top miniatures game I have ever played Overall I love this game...

[Ratty]

The Activation Phase is the entire section of the turn where you are taking it in turns to activate models. SO before any models are activated he goes on a rampage.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Ratty

[Keltheos]

Just to be clear, there isn't a "Start Activation Phase". There is an "Activation Phase" which includes a step: "Start Activation Phase Step".

So that's when Blood Price would occur.

[Skunkdog]

Ratty, Keltheos

Thanks you for your input. The question is now answered

After checking with some of the people that I play with I found that people were doing all sorts of things with Blood Price

I don't know if either of you agree with my earlier statements about the text for Blood Price perhaps being a bit confusing? I would be interested to know if you agree with this?

I am definitely interested in helping my local group play as correct a game as possible, but without becoming overbearing about it. I am a bit of a lurker in these forums, but I just wanted to say I appreciate the work you guys to help clarify the game...