Would Hamelin loose me friends?

[graeme27uk]

If I were to start playing Hamelin would I start losing friends? :1_Happy_Puppet1:

No one else in our group has him, though from what I have read and what I hear he is about as much fun as Pandora for others to play against. So if I did get him, would I be just ruining games for other people?

What about Hamelin's avatar? Is that also considered too nasty to play?

[Clousseau]

Hamelin is not fun to play against, and also, from what I can understand, not much fun to use either. Maybe you can find a different way to use him (no rats?).

Sorry.

[Sandwich]

If I were to start playing Hamelin would I start losing friends? :1_Happy_Puppet1:

No one else in our group has him, though from what I have read and what I hear he is about as much fun as Pandora for others to play against. So if I did get him, would I be just ruining games for other people?

What about Hamelin's avatar? Is that also considered too nasty to play?

IF you want to pick up Hamelin, make sure you and your pals FULLY understand EVERY mechanic he has.

Make sure they're clear that

1.) Insignificant models cannot target Hamelin (Unless he manifests) and must win a Wp->13 to target Rat Catchers.

2.) The Stolen are terrible models to target.

3.) Hamelin can Obey any model in the game (Either (1)Obedience or his Haunting Melody Pipes trigger)

4.) Soulless are NOT affected by Terrifying.

5.) If Hamelin manifests and all models in the game have a Blight Counter, you'll be dealing a significant amount of chaos.

6.) Card manipulation is a great bet if you use things like Headshot versus Nix.

7.) He can completely change his crew makeup mid game.

8.) He can be VERY fast.

9.) He can become unstoppable if you do not work hard early to slow him down.

10.) Rats can quickly get out of hand and shouldn't be allowed to roam free if it can be helped.

And while you're playing do your best to be kind with your Obey potential, especially after he manifests.

There's a whole lot of douche potential for Hamelin, so its up to you to consciously decide whether or not Obeying your opponent's heavy hitter into killing their master is worth the frustration.

- - - -

He can be a lot of fun if you go for unorthodox lists that don't meta his potential.

Etc

[Ozz]

He is utterly horrible to play against if your opponent does not understand what happens. First game i won due to i was using the dreamer and he also did not understand what the dreamer did. Second was a draw due to terror on the 7th turn.

But once you know what your doing against him, and what to kill/how to protect your models it becomes an easier game, and it can become a challenge for you as well, just remember rats are not immune to terrifying so they flee like crazy

[omnivision6]

Hamelin is really boring to play. Like sandwich said, understand everything. It makes the game go at a normal pace. You really shouldn't lose any friends cause...its just a game,lol. If they refuse to play Hamelin, bring out another crew.

[graeme27uk]

I am left in a quandry then. I like the fluff of Hamelin, his look and the concept of "I am the Plague!". Blight counters also sound like an interesting mechanic as well.

However, from the above comments, I am not sure whether currently Hamelin would be a good crew/master to pick up.

Does he play the way Wyrd intended him to? Did they consider that he would be game-breaking and are there any ways of rectifying this?

[Ozz]

If your friends are playing Colette, Dreamer, Kirai ect then hamelin should be fine. If they play Seamus, Raspy ect then perhaps a little OP but it all depends on how you play him, less OP if you take a less "fluffy" list. And as Magicpockets and others will tell you there are counters to him, just make sure to make sure your opponents learn how to counter him as well. If you like his fluff, then you should get him and play him the way you like.

[MrSpiffypants]

Wow, no love for Hammy? While I have been on the receiving side of Hamelins bad-touch a time or two, it's important to remember that it requires a fair bit of talent to get the most out of Hamelin. Sure it can feel like Hamelin is walking around with "god-mode" on, but once you realize your goal isn't to just kill him, he's actually fun to play against. Even more so if you stop thinking of him as the Master of a crew and more like the Tyrant of Plague that he is.

Malifaux's brief description is, "A character driven skirmish game", and baby does Hamelin have that. His story in book two sold me on the game. It was so awesome I'm having to bite my tongue here and not rob you people of its ending. Suffice to say, the secret to beating Hamelin is on page 237.

The only word of caution I'll give is that Hamelin (much like Pandora) has a very powerful ability. So when you start becoming proficient with that ability, if your opponents don't start learning their own tricks and how to counter yours it can seem like things are unfair. Try swapping crews and playing again.

There is a rumor that Hamelin's due for an update, and that may be true. I've only found three things that are silly (not broken!) with him.

1) If things go your way early, your turns can get pretty long

2) a wp 13 duel to shoot a rat catcher, but shooting zombies or Simulacrum 29 is ok? Heck his armor ability has him covered in rat! Why would you not see this guy as a threat?

3) Avatar of Contagion melee is a 2/3/5 flip, Master of Plague is 0/3/9. 10 damage feels wrong.

Whew, this is way too long. Play Hamelin, be a good sport, have fun.

[magicpockets]

I play Hamelin, routinely steamroller people, won Masters with him - and it really hasn't lost me any friends. And he's nothing in filth levels compared to Somer *wink*

If you like him, play him - just bear in mind it can turn into a NPE for you and your opponent if you let the game turn into "Hamelin by numbers" (i.e. playing certain things a certain way every time because it wins easily). Try to spice it up with various crews and play styles (Hamelin himself has three distinct play styles, and many more with different slants to his crew) - for example try playing with Hamelin, Nix, his totem and 6x Stolen

Overall I do like playing my Hamelin crew and have put a lot of work into finding ways to play him powerfully. I just wish people would put as much effort into learning how to play against him instead of whining he's so broken.

[Cthulhurising]

Hamelin was my first crew. I raise rats. I play Skaven in Fantasy. I have so many jokes with my friends that when people bring candy for game night, I get cheese instead.

Hamelin fit perfectly. Play him. I think he's fun. I love his lore.

The way I learned to get around people hating me for playing Hamelin? I played him more. I explained what I was doing, what I could be doing and what I couldn't do and why. It drags out the game some for a few times sure, but after a lot of nitpicking and discussion my crew up here came to the basic realization of "..w.ait... this guy is godmode? why?" and anymore I lose half the time. If the strats don't go my way, its usually because Hamelin and Nix are really the only two strong independant models and I can't get to where I need to fast enough to do everything so I'm denied points or the opponent brings down my crew in the proper order to make it fall apart.

But if you go into playing with your friends and don't warn them... thats bad. Don't let them find out he can't be targeted by insig models once you turn their master insig. etc and like others said. Its a game, when you one shot an enemy master cause you used his "Fate Is Meaningless" and then just cheated in a severe for 9 damage... don't gloat. Lol.

Basically, don't be a douche and remember he breaks a lot of the core rules, so explain why.

Worst match up I had?

Perdita

Executioner

Watcher

Austringer x2

Nino.

She ran my rats into the ground with the executioner and shot the rest of my army apart. I got stomped pretty bad. Hamelins not "quite" yet a god. He's just a poor, disease hobo with some remnents of a god. Anyone who says otherwise I challange to come up here and fight the people I do.

[magicpockets]

Anyone who says otherwise I challange to come up here and fight the people I do.

Where are you based?

[Cthulhurising]

Fort Collins, colorado.

Actually, if you can track down one of the henchmen up here, he's one of the people that beat me semi regularly when I play hamelin.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Cthulhurising

[Undisclosed]

I played against Hamelin for the first time this Friday, and i wouldn't say it was a bad game. I quite enjoyed it.

Yes, it's difficult, but it's also different to every other crew so it really forced me to think differently about the game which was enjoyable. I also made quite a few bad choices in hindsight with regards to schemes vs Hamelin which in the end cost me.

I don't think playing Hamelin will lose you friends personally, if you explain what's going on with all the interactions and why they are going on, then fine. I can't wait to have another game vs Hamelin to see what will happen second time around know i've seen it done in front of me.

[Dustcrusher]

Worst case, swap crews for a game so they can enjoy how brutal he is (or see that he's not so bad after all, depending on the player).

[graeme27uk]

How much does Hamelin rely on soulstones? With a cache of 0, I am wondering how many I need to keep back.

[Cthulhurising]

With my hamelin I don't use to many. I save... 3-4 for turning important models insig, or pulling people around, if i need to do that much. But really, if you're careful with the kids, and with Fate Is Meaningless you don't really need them to soak up that much damage or for damage.

On the other side, I wouldn't go in with no cache either.

[magicpockets]

Fort Collins, colorado.

Actually, if you can track down one of the henchmen up here, he's one of the people that beat me semi regularly when I play hamelin.

I'll add you to my roadtrip when it happens - although I HATE snow and cold

How much does Hamelin rely on soulstones? With a cache of 0, I am wondering how many I need to keep back.

Personally I'd say always take 7 or 8 ss with him - he's a wrecking ball and can use them so well, and it means you can play him hyper-aggressively with little worry about reprisal

[Primarch]

Of course he will be cuddled soon....right after I pick up the box. By the way folks...if there is anyone else who needs cuddled, let me know, since I have that kind of luck.

I will start their crew and get em hammered for you.

Clay

[graeme27uk]

I was reading some other threads regarding Hamelin.

Some compared him to Leveticus, saying that Levie was just better at the same stuff as Hamelin. Also, that Levie's increased crew choice makes him more unpredictable.

If this is true, then why is Hamelin so vilified and Levie not...

Also, how would Hamelin deal with Terrifying or things with Anathema as that would seem to wreck his day... insignificant or not.

Finally, does Hamelin count as Insignificant or does his Nihilism affect him as well?

Regarding the above post, any idea when Hamelin is going to get revised?

I also have this feeling that if I invested in a Hamelin crew that it would not get used that often and so I might be better investing my monies else where.... which is rather sad as I liked Hamelin's fluff and "I am Plague" feel.

[magicpockets]

why is Hamelin so vilified and Levie not...

Mainly because people lose to Hamelin and instead of going "Well, maybe it's because I suck" or going "well, maybe I need to learn what Hamelin does to beat him next time" they go "I played exactly how I play against every other crew and lost - OMFG Hamelin is so OP, he needs Cuddling"

I think Levi lets you keep much of your playstyle to beat him, Hamelin doesn't at all, and people don't want to put in the time to work out how to beat him. That said, his crew does need toning down in a few areas (just not as badly as people say)

All imo of course.

[Sandwich]

I was reading some other threads regarding Hamelin.

Some compared him to Leveticus, saying that Levie was just better at the same stuff as Hamelin. Also, that Levie's increased crew choice makes him more unpredictable.

If this is true, then why is Hamelin so vilified and Levie not...

Also, how would Hamelin deal with Terrifying or things with Anathema as that would seem to wreck his day... insignificant or not.

Finally, does Hamelin count as Insignificant or does his Nihilism affect him as well?

Regarding the above post, any idea when Hamelin is going to get revised?

I also have this feeling that if I invested in a Hamelin crew that it would not get used that often and so I might be better investing my monies else where.... which is rather sad as I liked Hamelin's fluff and "I am Plague" feel.

To give your finger the precise direction in which it should point, I am the sole reason and fire-starter of almost all Hamelin negativity.

The reason being is;

1.) There are concise methods available that allow you to completely shutdown a very wide group of playstyles,

2.) There are also concise methods available that make it seem like everything your opponent does has absolutely no impact in the game,

3.) There are equally concise methods available that allow you cheese about your opponents in a way very much unkind.

4.) Ratswarms can take a REALLY long time to move about.

- - - - -

When the second book first dropped, one of the first things I did was run a LOT of Hamelin games where I quickly found out the best and most powerful strategies and used him to just ream the competition into the fetal position.

It didn't lose me any friends but it cost me a game group and I wish it didn't.

That's why I said you really should make sure everyone knows everything you're capable of before you run him, because there are some things he's capable of that are just pure anti-fun.

[JayBarlekamp]

A lot of the trouble can be averted if you have any amount of self-control. You don't have to start with 2 blocks of rats with ratcatchers in them. You don't have to continually kill and respawn rats to get a ton of activations.

Hamelin actually has quite a few models he can add from other factions. Try Candy and Kade. Throw in some canine remains or guild hounds. Any of the Effigies will work for him too. Hell, if you really want to be a nice guy, you can take 2 crooligans.

I rarely start with more than 1 or 2 rats. And often I don't have any at all. I have yet to lose as Hamelin in my area. However, I also have yet to have anyone rage-quit or refuse to play Hamelin either.

The main point is, just because Hamelin can be played like an asshole, doesn't mean he needs to be played that way.

[graeme27uk]

I played against Pandora the other day. I guess Hamelin is similar in that, whilst interesting, it does feel a bit one-sided at times.

So if I just got the Hamelin box set, is that going to be "unfun"? I was thinking of adding some Night-terrors for speed and objective grabbing.

I think I prefer aHamelin to normal Hamelin.. he seems more plague-themed and less hated.

[NinjaBreadMen]

First off, having just read through this thread I'd like to say thanks to everyone who's posted as it's been really useful. I play Outcasts and currently have Levi and Ophelia, and have been planning to get all the masters except the Hamster. Having read this though, I now feel I may add the Hamster to my crews after I get all the Outcasts. (ideally that way if there is an errata I can learn the rules post-change, instead of having to get used to his style twice)

A couple of questions though:

My two common opponents play Ressers and Archanists, how do those factions deal best with the Hamster? I'd be playing to have fun, so they won't need to worry about me exploiting anything or throwing unfathomable numbers of activations at them, but what's tricks can I suggest, or which of their masters will stand the best chance.

Also, it's my impression that once a player knows how to stop the Hamster the game kind of flips sides, and suddenly I'll be the one with a :Confused_Puppet: face, banging my fists on the table and rolling on the floor crying. Is that the case? Or can the Hamster protect himself against standard tactics to shut him down: I'm concerned that if I get him and we talk through everything he brings to the table, we can establish how best to defeat him, but I'll just be shooting myself in the foot.

Thanks again folks!

[magicpockets]

To give your finger the precise direction in which it should point, I am the sole reason and fire-starter of almost all Hamelin negativity.

I quickly found out the best and most powerful strategies and used him to just ream the competition into the fetal position.

:facepalm: